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US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

bbc.com

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Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#71

Post by kevin_nisbet »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #27
TulliusCicero wrote: post #16

> A new pick-up truck that once cost $40,000 now runs to $100,000. A wooden fence post has gone from about $6 to as much as $19. A quarter-mile roll of barbed wire has doubled, from $60 to $130. Everything he uses day to day, he says, has jumped in price since the Covid pandemic. I know why pick-ups have gone up in cost (though I don't think it's quite to 2.5x levels like suggested here since the pandemic), but woode…

> it's less clear why those are so much more expensive now. It's basically, because everything else has gotten more expensive. Labor + fuel + wear and tear on equipment + raw materials. Inflation of a single thing, will have effects on anything down stream of that thing. And then there is the "greed" aspect, though overstated, where a company will see that costs have gone up in other sectors, so they raise their acco…

>It's basically, because everything else has gotten more expensive. Labor + fuel + wear and tear on equipment + raw materials.

Don't forget taxes (tariffs) have also increased substantially. Even if a supplier isn't paying tariff's, if their competitors are they can often just raise their prices, or their prices go up due to the supply/demand shift.

Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#72

Post by Dylan16807 »

ericmay wrote: post #29
valicord wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes, clearly communism is the reason for high inflation in the US...

That wasn't what I wrote or communicated.

So it was just a non-sequitur? Nobody was suggesting communism.

(Also communism doesn't follow the same rules as monopolies.)

Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#73

Post by Jach »

JohnFen wrote: post #11

Beef prices have become simply insane. The value I get from beef can no longer justify the expense, so I've simply stopped buying it at all. I've largely replaced it with pork. Pork used to be the most popular meat in the US. I wonder if it will be again.

Even discount beef has worse discounts. My grocery store changed out the 50% discount stickers for meat at its sell-by date to 30%.

Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#74

Post by dannyw »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #16

> A new pick-up truck that once cost $40,000 now runs to $100,000. A wooden fence post has gone from about $6 to as much as $19. A quarter-mile roll of barbed wire has doubled, from $60 to $130. Everything he uses day to day, he says, has jumped in price since the Covid pandemic. I know why pick-ups have gone up in cost (though I don't think it's quite to 2.5x levels like suggested here since the pandemic), but woode…

Logistics and labor.

People under-estimate the cost of logistics and transport. Every inch of travel for any input, component, or the final product has to be paid; and even a wooden fencepost typically moves between at least 5 different locations before reaching retail.

Let's use wooden posts as an example:

  1. Forest. Trees are cut down into logs, and then transported to...
  2. Lumbermill. Logs are cut to size, and then transported to...
  3. Treatment plant. Without it, your fencepost won't last for every long, and then transported to...
  4. Distributor location. And then transported to...
  5. Store (e.g. Home Depot or whatever). And then you pick it up, or get it delivered to you.
Every inch, every mile, you're paying for the energy, inefficiencies, and labor involved.

Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#75

Post by Ekaros »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #16

> A new pick-up truck that once cost $40,000 now runs to $100,000. A wooden fence post has gone from about $6 to as much as $19. A quarter-mile roll of barbed wire has doubled, from $60 to $130. Everything he uses day to day, he says, has jumped in price since the Covid pandemic. I know why pick-ups have gone up in cost (though I don't think it's quite to 2.5x levels like suggested here since the pandemic), but woode…

I am starting to think that there might be lot less competition on free markets than we think. And many markets tend to be established with big enough players. So they have stopped competing. If new entrants try to come well they might be undercut or simply bought out.

Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#76

Post by ericmay »

cousinbryce wrote: post #43
ericmay wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people see this as a problem, but I see it as a normal function of market economies. Disruptions, changes in government policy, changes in consumer behavior, and more will over the long term just work themselves out. Of course some policies or seemingly "voluntary" policies may cause undue price increases, but even those work themselves out. At the end of the day as more and more people want to consume the same…

Beef and gas prices are up due to policy (tariffs, war) If anything, it shows how effective government policy can be. Ironically higher beef and gas prices are quite good for reducing carbon emissions.

Well they are up at least in part due to policy such as tariffs and war which unfortunately is imposed upon us in the US (Russia invading Ukraine, Iran destabilizing the Middle East), but I also think an important factor is the increase in global demand for beef and other meat products.

Gas prices are a little less clear as it seems primarily the increases have been due to Iranian destabilization in the Middle East and less so tariffs, but gas prices do effect each country differently so increases here in the US are a lot less painful than, say, Singapore.

I agree with you that increases in the prices of both are good for reducing carbon emissions. I think it's interesting to see how folks are reacting to, what in my mind seem to be still incredibly low prices relative to the negative externalities. If we factored in the destruction and harm we're doing to the planet gas in the US should probably be more in the neighborhood of $20/gallon or something (that's a made up number and I'm just guessing) and beef probably should be quite a bit more expensive too. Though I think it's also worth pointing out gas prices are still lower than when Russia unjustly invaded Ukraine and if we can stomach those we can stomach these too.

Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#77

Post by gruez »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #17
JohnFen wrote: post #11

Beef prices have become simply insane. The value I get from beef can no longer justify the expense, so I've simply stopped buying it at all. I've largely replaced it with pork. Pork used to be the most popular meat in the US. I wonder if it will be again.

The neat part is that there is no inflation here: you just substituted a worse product for a better one and our friends in the govt call it good.

>you just substituted a worse product for a better one and our friends in the govt call it good.

I agree that somewhat distorts the effect of inflation, but at the same time it has to be done for inflation measures to make any sense. Otherwise we'd still be measuring the prices of heating coal and whale blubber.

Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#78

Post by ericmay »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #72
ericmay wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't what I wrote or communicated.

So it was just a non-sequitur? Nobody was suggesting communism. (Also communism doesn't follow the same rules as monopolies.)

No it wasn't a non-sequitur. Instead of repeating myself I'll just link to this good explanation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49197575

Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#79

Post by goalieca »

kevin_nisbet wrote: post #71
jermaustin1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's less clear why those are so much more expensive now. It's basically, because everything else has gotten more expensive. Labor + fuel + wear and tear on equipment + raw materials. Inflation of a single thing, will have effects on anything down stream of that thing. And then there is the "greed" aspect, though overstated, where a company will see that costs have gone up in other sectors, so they raise their acco…

>It's basically, because everything else has gotten more expensive. Labor + fuel + wear and tear on equipment + raw materials. Don't forget taxes (tariffs) have also increased substantially. Even if a supplier isn't paying tariff's, if their competitors are they can often just raise their prices, or their prices go up due to the supply/demand shift.

Inflation from Covid spending is what got us. It was horrible before tarrifs.

Re: US beef prices have soared but farmers aren't making more money

#80

Post by Schlagbohrer »

JohnFen wrote: post #11

Beef prices have become simply insane. The value I get from beef can no longer justify the expense, so I've simply stopped buying it at all. I've largely replaced it with pork. Pork used to be the most popular meat in the US. I wonder if it will be again.

Maybe americans will start eating Philippino pag-pag? (recycled meat from landfills)

https://youtu.be/c7gDBVmgIRA

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