Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Americans view capitalism, socialism and free enterprise

news.gallup.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 122 posts

Re: How Americans view capitalism, socialism and free enterprise

#41

Post by simianwords »

dzonga wrote: post #21

some of these media outlets manipulate public opinion. majority of the public can't differentiate between commerce & capitalism. nor socialism vs 'free markets'. the non-gullible people know it's not just about this vs that - but ultimately who controls what. ideally you want a system where no individual player or a few players can tip the system. the Chinese system is probably the closest to that - but then the CCP…

> the non-gullible people know it's not just about this vs that - but ultimately who controls what. ideally you want a system where no individual player or a few players can tip the system.

forgive me for asking but even if I accept China is a real democracy, how is that meaningfully different from "no individual player or a few players can tip the system". isn't Xi and the other party members capable of doing exactly this?

i can even agree that Xi was voted in by the people but that doesn't change the point.

Re: How Americans view capitalism, socialism and free enterprise

#42

Post by myrmidon »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #26
DamonHD wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how a shared currency (between poor and rich states, with the subsidy flows that implies), a national air-traffic control system and the interstates, amongst many other features, are not "socialism".

The majority of federal government spending is a wealth transfer to old and poor people: https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder... That’s also an easy sign of socialism. Just not all of society benefits. Not to mention the state and local level stuff via Medicaid and property tax subsidies for old people, too. And then there’s the implicit monetary policy of putting asset owners ahead of income…

> The majority of federal government spending is a wealth transfer to old and poor people

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous take.

Thats just like saying that public schools are a wealth transfer from the working class to students, or that health insurance is a wealth transfer to old and sick people.

It's neither useful nor precise. Things are never an actual "wealth transfer" when both sides consider it worthwhile-- that's just an ordinary trade.

Re: How Americans view capitalism, socialism and free enterprise

#43

Post by lapcat »

inigyou wrote: post #20
nostrademons wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder how many of the complaints about capitalism are really about corruption , and if people would have a more favorable view of it if we didn't have this system of interlocking directorships, revolving public/private appointments, regulatory capture, and backroom handshakes between government and corporations that seems to shut many Americans out of the capitalist wealth-creation engine.

Could it be that capitalism implies or causes corruption?

I would say that private financing of election campaigns causes corruption. It becomes one dollar one vote instead of one person one vote.

Re: How Americans view capitalism, socialism and free enterprise

#45

Post by cholantesh »

inigyou wrote: post #25
mytailorisrich wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People really need to give up the cold war, the failures of "end of history" thinking are directly related to all of the economic problems we have today. That's irrelevant to the point. The 1980s did settle the capitalism vs. socialism debate. The USSR and, perhaps more consequentially, China effectively abandonned socialism because it failed and acknowledged that capitalism, free enterprise, and the free market wa…

The USSR had nothing to do with socialism (it was a feudal dictatorship) and it's debatable whether China is now capitalist.

I quite regularly read weird characterizations of the USSR, but 'feudal dictatorship'?

Re: How Americans view capitalism, socialism and free enterprise

#47

Post by TrackerFF »

The problem in the US, is that historically all flavors of socialism have been painted the same way as communism. So in the end it has been capitalism vs socialism, no room in the middle.

And whenever countries with social democratic systems, or in general countries with strong socialist influences are presented to the public, the billionaire-pundits scramble to downplay their living standards.

Take this world cup, for example. You have Fox news pundits tripping over themselves to tell the audience that Europeans don't have AC, don't get ice with their drinks, or whatever.

Re: How Americans view capitalism, socialism and free enterprise

#48

Post by Bjartr »

nostrademons wrote: post #19
thelastgallon wrote: post #8

Socialism is only for the super-duper rich, the 0.001%. Too big to fail, trickle down economics and all that. Capitalism for the poor, you gotta pull yourself up by the bootstraps. If you ain't successful, you aren't working hard enough.

Makes me wonder how many of the complaints about capitalism are really about corruption , and if people would have a more favorable view of it if we didn't have this system of interlocking directorships, revolving public/private appointments, regulatory capture, and backroom handshakes between government and corporations that seems to shut many Americans out of the capitalist wealth-creation engine.

I think part of it is that it can be argued that benefitting from such corruption within the system is itself a capitalistic action and therefore justifiable from within.

Pursuing regulatory capture is just one action of many for maximizing shareholder value, to the point that not doing so is arguably a failure of leadership. At least to some. (To be clear, I disagree with this in principle)

Re: How Americans view capitalism, socialism and free enterprise

#49

Post by ifwinterco »

nostrademons wrote: post #19
thelastgallon wrote: post #8

Socialism is only for the super-duper rich, the 0.001%. Too big to fail, trickle down economics and all that. Capitalism for the poor, you gotta pull yourself up by the bootstraps. If you ain't successful, you aren't working hard enough.

Makes me wonder how many of the complaints about capitalism are really about corruption , and if people would have a more favorable view of it if we didn't have this system of interlocking directorships, revolving public/private appointments, regulatory capture, and backroom handshakes between government and corporations that seems to shut many Americans out of the capitalist wealth-creation engine.

The US is not really capitalist, it’s an oligarchy - a small number of people like Larry Ellison essentially control everything.

It’s always been like that, even going back to the 19th century and the robber barons of the gilded age

Post reply on HN