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Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

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Re: Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

#81

Post by nchmy »

socketcluster wrote: post #78

In my case, I need my AI to be sycophantic because most of my contrarian ideas are correct. So it's a waste of my time and tokens when the AI keeps making weak arguments which I proceed to destroy one by one. Usually, what happens is it tries to debunk my statement but then I offer a rebuttal to all of its points, it then concedes to all of my points but each time it offers a new partial rebuttal... Which I proceed t…

I have had similar experiences - it'll hold fast on a bunch of awful points that I've already shown, and eventually gotten it to admit, are invalid. Kinda like a human...

Yet, the answer is not sycophancy. It is for it to just be objective, honest, humble etc... Challenge or agree with you when necessary

Re: Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

#82

Post by dbspin »

socketcluster wrote: post #78

In my case, I need my AI to be sycophantic because most of my contrarian ideas are correct. So it's a waste of my time and tokens when the AI keeps making weak arguments which I proceed to destroy one by one. Usually, what happens is it tries to debunk my statement but then I offer a rebuttal to all of its points, it then concedes to all of my points but each time it offers a new partial rebuttal... Which I proceed t…

> most of my contrarian ideas are correct.

My stripper finds me attractive, my therapist is in love with me, and my genius goes unrecognised because of small men intimidated by ideas they cannot comprehend.

I'm really hoping your comment is satire, but assuming it isn't, genuinely it might be time to get some help. Our capacity for self delusion as humans is enormous, and it's only higher in brighter people - particularly autodidacts who are used to being the smartest person they know.

Re: Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

#83

Post by chrisjj »

Ravus wrote: post #77
chrisjj wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that the crackpots are out there writing, and this is snarfed into the training data. No, the problem is the chatbot pretends to be an AI answer engine. Recognise it is simply a zero-intelligence search engine, and you'll not be surprised at all to get crackpot writings from the web. > write in a way that reintroduces rigidity ... and do not be surpised to get rigid crackpot writings from the web.

> Recognise it is simply a zero-intelligence search engine I think that this highlights the problem: it's not even a proper search engine. If it were, it would find existing material and link to it. The chatbot instead re-elaborates the message. This is different enough to have legal consequences (see the recent German ruling). By squashing everything together, one loses the ability to evaluate sources, including the…

Plus this rot has extended to true search engines too. A recent Google blurb on new "AI" features of Google web search kicks of with the following misrep:

"The goal of Search has always been simple: to help you ask anything on your mind"

https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/products/search/s...

And they are also perverting search results, if this is to be believed:

"The Google AI Mode recognizes search intent by understanding the meaning of a query made rather than relying entirely on keywords. The platform uses sophisticated AI models to determine what users are looking to accomplish and whether they need any information, comparisons, or final decisions. This way, Google provides more accurate search results."

https://bostoninstituteofanalytics.org/blog/latest-google-ai...

Re: Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

#84

Post by Lutger »

I think the conclusions are a bit overstated and lopsided. Regardless of the sycophancy (which you can tune), LLMs have infinite patience and attention to details. They also have very little inherent bias - it just mirrors your own mostly. They are, in those aspects, vastly superior to even the best therapists, who can't listen for even a couple of minutes and can't think outside of their limited frames. They are only human.

Try listening to somebody and merely repeating the literal words that they say. I guarantee you, most people can't even reproduce two or tree sentences correctly. And I am not even talking about understanding the words, just the literal reproduction of them, copy-pasta. Humans just can't do it, we are not good at it.

Talking to an AI about your problems is a bit like talking to yourself, but with the added superpower of hours of google searches compressed in seconds. Of course it is dangerous and incomplete, but in a way it also beats talking to humans if you know what you are doing and are looking to and able to solve your problems yourself.

Re: Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

#85

Post by altmanaltman »

Lutger wrote: post #84

I think the conclusions are a bit overstated and lopsided. Regardless of the sycophancy (which you can tune), LLMs have infinite patience and attention to details. They also have very little inherent bias - it just mirrors your own mostly. They are, in those aspects, vastly superior to even the best therapists, who can't listen for even a couple of minutes and can't think outside of their limited frames. They are onl…

> They are, in those aspects, vastly superior to even the best therapists, who can't listen for even a couple of minutes and can't think outside of their limited frames.

You start your comment saying the conclusions are overstated and then just drop this conclusion without any proof except anncedotal prespective.

Re: Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

#86

Post by MaKey »

overgard wrote: post #36
donatj wrote: post #17

> This suggests that people are drawn to AI that unquestioningly validate, even as that validation risks eroding their judgment I believe this is a larger problem than just AI. The internet has helped people surround themselves with only voices that agree with them and validate them, often to their detriment. There are entire online communities urging people to cut others out of their lives over the slightest disagre…

Yeah, a lot of it isn't even really about people's choice though. Like, I have so many click-baity things in my YouTube feed even though I ignore almost all of it, because just one click and suddenly that's a thing it's going to show me 10x. I wish there was a place I could go for tech news that just didn't talk about AI. I'm so over it.

I can recommend the Unhook browser extension. My YouTube start page is empty, I have to actively seek out videos I want to watch.

Re: Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

#88

Post by vhantz »

qarl2 wrote: post #69
xracy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing more examples of you saying you're providing evidence than of you actually providing evidence. So far I've heard a single anecdote about what you did. That's a pretty far cry from the "evidence" you claim to have dropped on multiple comments.

LOL. Providing a counter example is far from just an anecdote.

An anecdote is an anecdote is an anecdote

Re: Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

#89

Post by jtr1 »

kazinator wrote: post #66

I have an alternative view which is that sycophancy erodes trust in AI, from those who are not seeking validation from a machine, but information or advice. If you're looking for advice in a situation where you are not sure of what the correct choices are, you will find LLM chat AI to go in circles. It says one thing. Something is dodgy about it, so you raise a tentative objection (as a non-expert). The thing does a…

I realize this is not scalable, but I’ve come to the personal preference that sycophancy be overt. LLMs are always steering in a direction and I find it a good reminder that they are just as incapable of objectivity as humans. TBD, but I think I’d prefer that fact plainly visible where I can see it.

Re: Sycophantic AI Decreases Prosocial Intentions and Promotes Dependence (2025)

#90

Post by georgefrowny »

ehnto wrote: post #65
overgard wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a lot of it isn't even really about people's choice though. Like, I have so many click-baity things in my YouTube feed even though I ignore almost all of it, because just one click and suddenly that's a thing it's going to show me 10x. I wish there was a place I could go for tech news that just didn't talk about AI. I'm so over it.

I think what frustrates me about the constant AI talk, is that it's like a global bikeshedding/yak shaving convention. It's an onslaught of details and opinions that don't matter that much. People arguing about single percentile benchmark differences like it will make or break their next project. I get it, we can use AI agents, and they keep improving. Great, now calm down and go build stuff, and show me the stuff. I…

> Great, now calm down and go build stuff, and show me the stuff.

Also sounds like Reddit where there are whole communities around what seem like part of the process - keyboards, knife sharpening, etc, rather than what you actually used your Handmade Matcha 65% MX Mechanical Collector's Edition or your Organic Kyoto 6500 diamond stone-honed knife for.

Like, yes, I get that people like to talk about their processes, and that's fine, but it seems like you can easily get sucked into making it the whole game by a sufficiently "supportive" community.

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