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Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

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Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#181

Post by esikich »

tw04 wrote: post #49
mixdup wrote: post #24

I don't know what DC Blox was going to put in this particular datacenter, but they are a "traditional" colocation datacenter company. Maybe this one would've been superdense GPUs with a jet engine as electrical generator causing all kinds of noise, but it's also just as likely this would've been a project that 5 years ago no one would've batted an eye over, and wouldn't cause any issues in the local neighborhood That…

Given that after the advent of virtualization we had a glut of datacenter space, and then the crypto bros started buying them up to mine: do we actually need more datacenters? Or do we just need regulators to say things like: mining crypto to facilitate money laundering and ransomware isn’t welcome here?

Virtualization uses standard rack mount servers, crypto does not. The machinery they use are completely different.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#182

Post by otterley »

sophacles wrote: post #86
otterley wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can generate more electricity, but NIMBY types don't want to approve projects that would add capacity, either.

It's always fun to watch AI zombies wrestle with the idea that sometimes the real humans have different priorities than they do. Usually people are against a lot of those power projects because those very same projects also seem to always raise rates and never deliver the promises of long-term lower rates.

Success doesn’t always look like lower rates, particularly when demand is ever-growing (even when there aren’t new data centers). Success looks like rates not going up faster than inflation, and reliable delivery. I remember well the rolling blackouts in CA in the late 1990s and that sucked. Even the ones in Texas weren’t that long ago.

Also, calling well-intended people with whom you disagree “zombies” is inappropriate. Take it elsewhere.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#183

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

tptacek wrote: post #137
shit_game wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a very significant talking point through most of covid, actually. Granted, there is an orders-of-magnitude disparity between office buildings and data centers regarding both their resource consumption and their local financial return through employment. Its no surprise that the attitude towards data centers is much more negative.

Not really, no? I'm not saying office buildings are "just as bad" as data centers; I'm saying they're substantially worse. It is much more unpleasant to have an office building next to your home than it is to have one of the CyrusOne Aurora data centers. The data center is --- seriously go look at them --- basically like having a park next door.

Office buildings employ considerably more people, support nearby restaurants, consume less power and water, produce virtually no infrasound, and are more attractive than data centers. I'd rather have an office building next to my house than a data center, especially if they would not be providing me colocation services at a steep discount.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#184

Post by bruce511 »

runako wrote: post #59
kortilla wrote: post #3

[flagged]

As the xAI debacle in Memphis showed, once construction begins the locality may lose the ability to enforce existing laws around e.g. noise, pollution, etc. that normally serve to contain negative externalities. (This is a side effect of the rule that people who are rich enough are immune from laws.) Since more precision remedies are off the table, all that's left are gross mechanisms like bans and eminent domain. No…

Yes, I think bad behaviors do play a part. With any development there has to be some level of trust between the developer and community (where the community are typically represented by local govt.)

Once that trust is eroded it can be difficult to get things built. If you lose trust in the govt the developer won't build. If trust in the developer is lost then permits just stop.

And yes, I think community trust in AI data centers is very low. Perhaps some more creative approaches will be necessary in the future to build up this trust again.

Data centers could be very good neighbors. They could be built in astheticly pleasing ways. They could balance elec consumption with production. They could operate cooling and simply return "warmer water" to source.

Unfortunately under the current cultural circumstances none of this can be taken for granted. Corporations have (very much) lost our trust in the effort to squeeze every last dime of profit out of everything. This is the American way.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#185

Post by tptacek »

jrflowers wrote: post #179
tptacek wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The office buildings next to the CyrusOne data centers in the western suburbs are not filled with people from Aurora. They're filled with commuters.

That’s wild, where do all the people from Aurora work? The data centers? Also what does the specific building or set of buildings you hate in one town have to do with the concept of office buildings

I've lost track of what your argument is. Mine is that office buildings are not generally filled with workers from the immediate municipality in which they're situated.

We're talking about office buildings because office buildings and data centers are both large-format commercial real estate developments.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#186

Post by gs17 »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #2

What stood out to me was this: "By a 27-5 vote". That number seemed really high, so I looked it up - this isn't a city or a county or some kind of private tax distict - its was the nation's first city-county government. "The Metropolitan Council is the legislative authority of the Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County, the nation’s first, fully consolidated city-county government, established in 19…

Yes, Nashville has a huge number of council members, and it's much better that way. I moved from there to Seattle, and there's 9 council members (7 districts + 2 city-wide) here so we share a representative with a huge area (six times the people and two and a half times the land) and our local concerns have no voice.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#187

Post by hiitsmyaccount »

dabinat wrote: post #145

In speaking with non-technical friends who are anti-data centers, I get the impression that they only recently discovered what a data center even was and are oblivious to how much they use data centers in their daily lives outside of AI. But I don’t fault them even if they’re misinformed. AI is a big power grab by the wealthy and people feel helpless and are acting in the only way they think they can.

Regardless of a datacenter being for AI or not, NIMBY applies to everyone. I look forward to these totally probable datacenters in space.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#188

Post by happymellon »

tptacek wrote: post #149
da_chicken wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody invests a billion dollars in a facility without first lobbying to get an exemption from property taxes. Most states in the US have passed incentives that include sales and property tax exemptions. They're all drain.

This is the opposite of the truth. For instance: https://www.wglt.org/local-news/2026-08-04/dekalb-and-aurora...

How is spending $24 million a year on taxes not evidence that they lobbied, and received tax breaks and exemptions?

The reason they picked that location was because they get reduced rates.

50% off energy taxes.

Reduced property taxes.

I could go on.

https://siteselection.com/how-illinois-built-a-dream-home-fo...

Unless your arguing an example of a data centre that only received a tax break rather than exemption?

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#189

Post by GolfPopper »

indoorfish wrote: post #38
menthe wrote: post #34

Unfortunately - the widespread propaganda seen around both nuclear power plants and datacenters is ultimately going to cost America everything - the American way of life our child’s will inherit is going to mean something very different than what it meant for us. China controls 90-99% of the rare earths - which are necessary for everything from cars to defense, chips, energy and even construction steel; China control…

It's a religious belief that we're going to invent a machine god and our machine god will fight china's machine god.

One that just happens to be very convenient for the machine-god peddling billionaires.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#190

Post by tptacek »

MrDrMcCoy wrote: post #183
tptacek wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, no? I'm not saying office buildings are "just as bad" as data centers; I'm saying they're substantially worse. It is much more unpleasant to have an office building next to your home than it is to have one of the CyrusOne Aurora data centers. The data center is --- seriously go look at them --- basically like having a park next door.

Office buildings employ considerably more people, support nearby restaurants, consume less power and water, produce virtually no infrasound, and are more attractive than data centers. I'd rather have an office building next to my house than a data center, especially if they would not be providing me colocation services at a steep discount.

Office buildings are not more attractive than data centers; that's my whole argument. In format, massing, and design, data centers essentially are office buildings, just with drastically less parking. Asphalt is the biggest eyesore in commercial real estate.

(Data centers consume immaterial amounts of water.)

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