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Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

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Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#61

Post by tzs »

Part of the problem is xAI. I bet the first reaction of many people when they hear someone wants to build a data center in their area is "Oh no...they want to do to us what they did to those people in Tennessee!" [1].

They built it in a poor, 90-95% Black, area that already had air quality problems leading to high rates of asthma and respiratory illness, and then decided they could not wait for the power company to upgrade infrastructure for them so they powered it with dozens of unpermitted gas turbines that lacked pollution controls, massively increasing the air quality problems and health problems there. (They are building their own gas power plant which will have permits and satisfy state environmental regulations but still will emit a lot of pollution which will continue to be a big problem for the residents).

Another part of the problem is that even projects that seem to be a good deal push so hard for fast approval it makes people suspicious.

Consider Project Jupiter, a massive (1400 acre mega data center) project in a poor area of New Mexico. From the NPR story I heard about this one it seems it might actually be a good deal for the area.

The public knew for months it was being planned but the details (400 pages of complex contract details and tax documents with many things still blank) were only released to the public 4 days before the County Board of Commissioners voted on it (4-1 in favor).

The public was not happy with that timeline.

Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#62

Post by archagon »

krapp wrote: post #40
Der_Einzige wrote: post #16

[flagged]

>Why don't I see the anarchist/left-wing crowd protesting for OpenAI/Anthropic to release/open-weights their models? Because the bigger problem is the existence of these companies altogether, the violent neo-reactionary Christian dominionist cult that runs them and their connections to Western imperialism, genocide and the MIC. Do you really think that they would ever release/open-weight their models if doing so pres…

AI seems to create a lot of Mouth of Sauron types. It's genuinely unsettling, assuming it's not just some sort of weird cosplay.

Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#63

Post by mcphage »

WarmWash wrote: post #59
mcphage wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people genuinely, actually care about energy costs, they can vocally support when calls for setting your thermostat at 78F in summertime go out. Or, we can prefer energy being spent on air conditioning, and not on data centers.

Then people should stop using AI...

Agreed.

Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#64

Post by Der_Einzige »

krapp wrote: post #40
Der_Einzige wrote: post #16

[flagged]

>Why don't I see the anarchist/left-wing crowd protesting for OpenAI/Anthropic to release/open-weights their models? Because the bigger problem is the existence of these companies altogether, the violent neo-reactionary Christian dominionist cult that runs them and their connections to Western imperialism, genocide and the MIC. Do you really think that they would ever release/open-weight their models if doing so pres…

[dead]

Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#65

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

malfist wrote: post #21
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could have been stopped so easily on its tracks with a simple premise: 1 day turnaround build permits, to any proposed off-the-grid data centers. BYO power. BYO water. BYO pipes & sewage. OK, you are good. Now build! Instead they are look like parasites invading the heartland and sucking resources (true or not), and owners pretend to be surprised when they are getting voted down.

> BYO power Like 26 gas turbines that make a ton of noise and pollution? > BYO water What? How does one BYO water? > BYO pipes & sewage Pipes and sewage to where? There's an implied common ground at the end of those.

>>> Like 26 gas turbines that make a ton of noise and pollution?

there's only noise pollution if there's anyone around. If there's anyone around, odds are land value is too expensive for a datacenter. As for pollution, that's already regulated. As is noise anyway. Lets not be pedantic. No one is protesting these due to pollution or noise.

>>> What? How does one BYO water?

Tankers. Like 95% of the world. Its a thing. This is actually the least likely to be an issue, since most datacenters run a closed loop water system anyway.

>>> Pipes and sewage to where? There's an implied common ground at the end of those.

Porta-potties for humans. Tanker disposal for the rest (to the extent you do have waste).

Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#66

Post by malfist »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #65
malfist wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BYO power Like 26 gas turbines that make a ton of noise and pollution? > BYO water What? How does one BYO water? > BYO pipes & sewage Pipes and sewage to where? There's an implied common ground at the end of those.

>>> Like 26 gas turbines that make a ton of noise and pollution? there's only noise pollution if there's anyone around. If there's anyone around, odds are land value is too expensive for a datacenter. As for pollution, that's already regulated. As is noise anyway. Lets not be pedantic. No one is protesting these due to pollution or noise. >>> What? How does one BYO water? Tankers. Like 95% of the world. Its a thing.…

None of your statements about the gas turbines are true in the context of the Memphis grok data center

Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#67

Post by pfdietz »

aprentic wrote: post #17
pfdietz wrote: post #8

Are folks still thinking orbital data centers are an impossibility? Because this is a strong part of the motivation for those.

Not impossible but I'm still curious how they're planning to deal with heat. I'd also wonder if the folks who don't want to live within 3 miles of a data center are OK with the data center flying over their head

Heat pump and a radiator, I believe. Very low mass PV would help a lot; PV can in principle be much less massive than a radiator of similar area.

Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#68

Post by pfdietz »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #47
pfdietz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar power in space is potentially very cheap; solar on a ship is not. The heat problem has demonstrable solutions that people who are physics challenged can't seem to get themselves to accept.

Solar power in space is not cheap. It's efficient. A solar panel in space produces 4-10X as much power as one on land. Which would be relevant if solar panels or land were scarce and expensive. Neither are. It's easier and cheaper to put 4-10X the number of panels on land.

What part of "potentially" didn't you understand?

The critics of space data centers seem to be focused on the immediate instant and downplaying any potential tech improvements.

Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#69

Post by pfdietz »

malfist wrote: post #15
pfdietz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar power in space is potentially very cheap; solar on a ship is not. The heat problem has demonstrable solutions that people who are physics challenged can't seem to get themselves to accept.

> Solar power in space is potentially very cheap Only if you ignore the cost of getting in there

No, even if you include that. Remember to not commit the mistake of thinking current launch costs are written in stone for all time to come.

Re: Polling shows a growing political reckoning is coming for data centers

#70

Post by pfdietz »

aprentic wrote: post #24
pfdietz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar power in space is potentially very cheap; solar on a ship is not. The heat problem has demonstrable solutions that people who are physics challenged can't seem to get themselves to accept.

What's the solution to the heat problem?

Heat pumps and radiators. Pumping heat to 2x the absolute temperature reduces the size of the radiator by ideally up to a factor of 8.
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