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Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

campion.edu.au

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Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#71

Post by dr_dshiv »

ComputerPerson wrote: post #59
dr_dshiv wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://sourcelibrary.org/book/problemata-text-beginning-omn... An original source for this. I wonder if wisdom teeth affected this count? It’s so odd of a claim

Women and men have identical dental anatomy, so no, it's not wisdom teeth. Women would technically be earlier and thus have more, if you get into the details. Aristotle has flaws, that's all. I love his work on happiness. On the academic side of Philosophy, I believe his conception stands alongside what is typically called "Hedonism" defining the two major schools of thought, obviously with modern takes and twists. S…

I learned today that I have 28 teeth. Anyone have 32?

Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#72

Post by pdonis »

mirmor23 wrote: post #54
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to distinguish between "many people are born into slavery" and "many people are meant to be slaves by their inborn nature". The former is true, the latter is not, even in the example you've given. Also, he was referring to people performing labour, not people adhering to spiritual belief or ideological systems. I see what you mean, but I don't think this means what he believed was true. I see it as categorica…

being born into slavery is a random fact -- life happens and they had no control over it really. many people are meant to be slaves is also a fact -- it is not like everyone is gifted cerebrally, or even blessed to be in an environment where, by the time they are adults, have been shown a good formula for life; so consequently a section of the society is destined to be just slaves, it just needs the presence of a man…

> Aristotle, being an endless questioning guy he was

I dunno--as far as I can tell Aristotle never asked the slaves who supported his philosophical lifestyle what they thought about it.

Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#73

Post by pdonis »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #57

> 11. “Happiness is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end of human existence.” That's a poor way of framing his beliefs about this. The correct framing is more like “Virtue and being a Good Human Being is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end of human existence.” Happiness should stem from being a good human being; happiness itself is not the origin of virtue or purpose. If p…

It's unfortunate that the Greek word eudamonia, which is the one Aristotle used, gets translated into English as "happiness", which is open to so many misunderstandings, particularly in our current culture. There isn't really a single English word that means "being a good human being". "Virtue" or "virtuousness" might once have served, but I think its connotations have shifted in a way that makes it no longer suitable for expressing the concept that Aristotle had in mind.

Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#74

Post by lo_zamoyski »

acephal wrote: post #32
RGS1811 wrote: post #24

Actually reading Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics is worth it. Not because he's right about everything (he has some pretty messed up and weird views), but because it's challenging and good to think on, and chances are you'll take something away for yourself that you wouldn't have gotten from some webpage that took one-liners out of context, some of which aren't even by Aristotle.

It’s weird and messed up because Aristotle’s audience isn’t Christian or even Abrahamic the slightest. He’s right about rejecting abstract definitions that aren’t grounded in the elements of a situation however.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Those two sentences seem disconnected.

One very common error people make is to believe that ethics - at least epistemically and for the most part - is sectarian. This view seems to stem from an ultimately nihilistic presupposition that morality is a fiction supplied by the fiction of religion. But that is not the natural law view and thus a view alien to both Aristotle and to Christianity. The natural law view is that human beings have a nature, which is most centrally to be a rational animal with the freedom to choose between alternatives apprehended by the intellect. Thus, Man has moral responsibility, because he plays a part in choosing what he does. Accordingly, because human nature defines what is good or bad for human beings (that which actualizes human potential in accord with reason vs. that which frustrates or opposes reason and the actualization of potential in accord with it), we bear responsibility for how we exercise our powers. Aristotle wasn't completely, but the core principles in the Metaphysics or his ethical works or in epistemology are - in my view - spot on.

What Christianity does or claims to do is supplement what is knowable by unaided reason with revealed knowledge - the object of faith - which, of course, does have ethical import, but it does not negate or supplant what is knowable by unaided reason.

FWIW, Aquinas drew heavily from Aristotle and had such enormous respect for Aristotle, he referred to him as simply "the Philosopher".

Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#75

Post by wahern »

bwfan123 wrote: post #15
andsoitis wrote: post #2

“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”

> entertain a thought without accepting it Entertaining an idea is understanding it. And, there is some research to show that understanding an idea is believing it. Hence, understanding an idea and not believing it is very effortful. [1] https://bear.warrington.ufl.edu/brenner/mar7588/Papers/gilbe...

> The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

-- F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Crack-Up[1], Esquire, February 1936

[1] https://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/a4310/the-crack-up (https://web.archive.org/web/20250328074803/https://www.esqui...)

Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#76

Post by [deleted] »

mirmor23 wrote: post #63
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to firmly disagree and insist that no one should ever be a slave, and they are not meant to be slaves, regardless of their intellectual capacity or whether they were shown a good formula for life. Human society is in a failed state anywhere in which someone is forced into slavery. I think you're committing a naturalistic fallacy, and I don't agree at all that people are ever meant to be slaves. The most I c…

'meant' was used to the effect of 'destined'; I've no disagreements with your position or moral principles. But spherical cow is different from reality.

[deleted]

Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#77

Post by lo_zamoyski »

ComputerPerson wrote: post #59
dr_dshiv wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://sourcelibrary.org/book/problemata-text-beginning-omn... An original source for this. I wonder if wisdom teeth affected this count? It’s so odd of a claim

Women and men have identical dental anatomy, so no, it's not wisdom teeth. Women would technically be earlier and thus have more, if you get into the details. Aristotle has flaws, that's all. I love his work on happiness. On the academic side of Philosophy, I believe his conception stands alongside what is typically called "Hedonism" defining the two major schools of thought, obviously with modern takes and twists. S…

[dead]

Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#78

Post by ColdStream »

kashyapc wrote: post #30

FWIW, I got a lot more about virtue ethics from reading Plato's works, the Stoics, and Cicero. Aristotle is somewhat dry and tedious to read. Go for him if you're into formal logic and related technical systems. But if you're truly interested in virtue ethics and have some reading discipline, try Seneca, Epictetus, and Marcus Aurelius. On Marcus Aurelius: he's often recommended mindlessly (especially in tech circles)…

It doesn't help that nowadays Aurelius is being held up as some beacon of masculinity nowadays. I mean there are much worse role models but so many folks have been reductionist about his views and it can be problematic. There is some good ideas but they have become idolized.

I found the views of the Neoplatonists to be fascinating even if one doesn't subscribe to those views.

Generally, read broadly and from multiple points of view.

Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#79

Post by lo_zamoyski »

andsoitis wrote: post #42
Razengan wrote: post #36

You know I always found it odd/unfair how religions were founded around Jesus, Muhammed etc but not for Aristotle, Socrates etc.

The Greek philosophers were more wise, humble, and didn’t think they’re deities.

It's a category mistake. People try to naturalize Jesus as a "great teacher", but the one thing you cannot do is frame Jesus as another wise man and good teacher! The man claimed to be God. Anyone who makes a claim like is either insane, a liar, or, in fact, God. "Greater teacher, full stop" is simply not an option.

Which is to say that the founding of the Church by Jesus is not rooted in some wise teachings, but in claims about his identity. If his claim of Godhood is false, then the Church and the Christian faith are total charlatanism.

Re: Aristotle quotes on virtue, knowledge, and happiness

#80

Post by ColdStream »

tmtvl wrote: post #67

Roughly translating something my grandfather once said: 'a quote is not something to be parroted, but to be pondered'. Unfortunately all the provided quotes are in English, so they're unlikely to actually be things Aristotle wrote or said; rather they're translations which may have different nuances or meanings. That doesn't mean they're not worth pondering, though (or parroting, if they are worthy of it and applicab…

Pretty much. I have a list of little sayings I have pondered over the years. I started it in 2020 thinking I might end up a few dozen, it is now well over 600. They are things to think over and not just accept blindly.

It stemmed from the idea from Buddhism that 'a thousand words mean nothing compared to a single word that brings peace'. Some of the most profound and useful sayings I have come across have been just single lined things. That doesn't mean that it is the only way to communicate, not even close, just that they have a very useful place but only in context.

As for the translations, I recommend people look at multiple translations of ancient texts to see how they vary wildly. The Tao Te Ching is a great example because of how many options you have available. Some are poetic, others are fairly blunt. Others just completely miss the point. It is fun to see.

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