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"AI" will never become conscious

mattbee.mataroa.blog

11–20 of 30 posts

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#11
"To evolve consciousness, an LLM would have to be programmed to evolve consciousness, and to do that, we would need to know what consciousness is and how to program it."

I think this article is mostly nonsense.

"... But I think continuing the animal comparison will illuminate why "AI consciousness" is not only impossible, but a concept that only makes sense in a religious framework."

It's much more religious to think consciousness requires something that can't be replicated in silicon.

I don't think that LLMs are conscious, or even really approaching consciousness, not even to the degree of a cockroach. But most arguments that artificial AI is generally impossible dip embarrassingly into the mystical.

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#12
post #6

It would be helpful to define "consciousness". I'm not convinced that i as a human have this "consciousness" thing. In fact, I strongly suspect that i am merely a statistical machine picking words from a learned distribution.

Not just words, you’re massively multimodal! Have a little pride in your MeatNet.

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#13
The first season of the tv show Westworld is a treasure trove of thought experiments exploring the value of what extending conciousness to "machines" would look like and I'm pretty sure there's absolutely zero value for actually building it.

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#14
post #12
post #6

It would be helpful to define "consciousness". I'm not convinced that i as a human have this "consciousness" thing. In fact, I strongly suspect that i am merely a statistical machine picking words from a learned distribution.

Not just words, you’re massively multimodal! Have a little pride in your MeatNet.

Would be nice if we can take the bat's sonar encoder, train a projector and fuse it into our NN

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#15
post #11

"To evolve consciousness, an LLM would have to be programmed to evolve consciousness, and to do that, we would need to know what consciousness is and how to program it." I think this article is mostly nonsense. "... But I think continuing the animal comparison will illuminate why "AI consciousness" is not only impossible, but a concept that only makes sense in a religious framework." It's much more religious to think…

Consciousness is such a hard concept to box. I mostly attribute "mystical" thinking as the thing we do when we can't fully articulate or understand how and why something works. A computer system is magical to anyone who doesn't have a deep understanding of how it all works. So that makes it entirely fair that consciousness is treated the same, except, no human alive right now understands it.

If you were to clone yourself, and that clone could maintain 100% of whatever state your brain is in so that all your experiences and memories were intact. From that point forward, as far as we know, you and your clone would diverge. Then, from my tiny-brained vantage point, the fact you remain your original self, your clone is technically a new person. You can't see through your clone's eyes, or process any internal information from your clone. However, something new powers that clone, and the only word I can think of for that is "soul." I don't say that in religious context, but unless there's a more precise word that can detangle it from sounding mystical, for now I'm happy to use it, since people mostly understand what I'm talking about.

Once we start talking about resetting this clone at-will, then, with consciousness in the mix, you will have to confront the ethics of that clone being enslaved by whatever. All very messy and I hope we don't have to answer this question in my lifetime.

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#16

> To evolve consciousness, an LLM would have to be programmed to evolve consciousness, and to do that, we would need to know what consciousness is and how to program it. Since consciousness only counts when it is formed deliberately rather than accidentally. Though that would mean…

> The rational soul can be made only by creation.

From Aquinas' Summa Theologiae. The argument this article presents does seem very similar. Weirdly, the article itself is very dismissive of religion, while making a similar argument to the one Aquinas made 750 years ago.

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#17
post #11

"To evolve consciousness, an LLM would have to be programmed to evolve consciousness, and to do that, we would need to know what consciousness is and how to program it." I think this article is mostly nonsense. "... But I think continuing the animal comparison will illuminate why "AI consciousness" is not only impossible, but a concept that only makes sense in a religious framework." It's much more religious to think…

What about the simple fact that biology is a dynamic substrate running actively and always on, whereas silicon is passive substrate that can be indefinitely off and can never self start? Sure you can imagine nanotechnology that has similar flexibility, but when you do, you’ll find that carbon is particularly better than silicon when it comes to possible configurations.

It’s not a reach to argue consciousness is a property of the dynamic substrate since clamping specific dynamics does in fact seem to ablate consciousness. Most famously with death.

On the flip side, a hibernating organism, while having very slow dynamics, has shown to still be aware of certain seasonal signals, and thus is able to self start its next conscious period.

None of this is mystical or magical. Nothing but the physics of active matter. Which current silicon is completely not.

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#18
On the about page, I see a strong political/religious stance, but no qualifications.

"My main objection to generative AI is from morality—it harms people, and there isn't even a trade-off to debate, because every purported benefit of genAI is corporate hype and/or science fiction."

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#19
post #6

It would be helpful to define "consciousness". I'm not convinced that i as a human have this "consciousness" thing. In fact, I strongly suspect that i am merely a statistical machine picking words from a learned distribution.

[deleted]

Re: "AI" will never become conscious

#20
To me this is like deja-vu: Ethology started out with "don't anthropomorphize" which is correct, but people read that to mean that animals can't think. Each paper down the line showed that they CAN think, but that each species and even individual have their own ways of thinking.

We know that gorillas think and communicate. Many papers after Koko can tell you that much. Her skill (or lack thereof) at human communication is not quite the revelation that people think it is. Because she was a Gorilla.

Meanwhile some of the messaging from big AI companies is truly atrocious; let's admit it. People obviously want to push back, and that needn't be wrong. Here though, the instinct to push back threatens to veer into cargo-cult skepticism. I think the question of whether or not LLMs can or cannot have human consciousness is a category error. Because they're LLMs.

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