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U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

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Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, arguably the war in Ukraine is teaching everyone who is listening that nobody is willing to be the first to use nukes and destroy the planet, which means that nuclear powers can actually fight wars--which is incredibly dangerous, of course.

Nukes don't "destroy the planet", they're just really powerful bombs. Nuclear munitions have been detonated 2058 times already. https://www.atomicarchive.com/almanac/test-sites/testing-chr...

Cause civilizational collapse then.

And of those nuclear tests, 528 were above ground, and only 200-300 of them were probably true airbursts. And all of them were in areas like atolls, deserts, and Arctic tundra where nothing burns. Their climate impact was near zero because they caused no fires and no dust, and they were spread out over 35 years.

That is different from thousands of detonations in an afternoon causing raging fires all over the globe. Estimates are that it would generate around 150 billion kg of stratospheric soot. For comparison, yearly generation is around 7-8 billion kg of soot, generally confined to the troposphere and therefore rains out fairly quickly. A nuclear exchange would produce 20 years of soot and dump it into the stratosphere, above the rain.

The largest pulses of soot that we've ever observed are the 2019 Australian megafires and the Canadian 2023 fires. These were roughly less than or equal to 1 billion kg and produced measurable climate effects that lasted months.

A full nuclear exchange would likely produce -10C of global cooling in its immediate aftermath, which would be catastrophic to agriculture and civilization. It would stabilize on the order of decades, but there would be a lot fewer humans in the world.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#732
post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A generation of Afghan women got to learn to read because of the US intervention. I don't think you'd find very many Afghans who prefer life pre- or post-US occupation to even the very shitty, corrupt government the US set up. Iran was funding terror attacks on Israel (and has been for decades) which for all its many faults is a liberal democracy which grants citizenship to millions of Palestinians who get to vote. T…

>Iran was funding terror attacks on Israel (and has been for decades) which for all its many faults is a liberal democracy which grants citizenship to millions of Palestinians who get to vote. Trump is a moron who picked a fight he could not possibly win, but fundamentally this was not a war that got declared out of the blue. Iran had a democratically elected government that the US helped overthrow and that is why th…

> Americas superpower is its ability to ignore its own hypocrisy, and you certainly embody that with a hefty sprinkle of willful ignorance.

I'm fully aware of how SK and Taiwan were military dictatorships, and how the US supported a coup in Iran. I'm not saying the US has never done horrible things, or even that the US doesn't have blood on its hands. I'm saying that geopolitics is a terrible thing, war is a terrible thing, but considering how this stuff normally works for powerful countries the US is remarkably restrained (or at least it was, until this second Trump term) and the Pax Americana seems to work out pretty well for most people around the world.

> Before Iraq 1 it was the most modern middle eastern state, US deliberately destroyed civilian infrastructure. This was after propping up Saddam as a dictator for two decades as they fought Iran, also selling chemical weapons precursors to Iraq while knowing they would create those weapons.

So what would be less hypocritical in your opinion? Should the US have intervened earlier to remove Saddam? Should the US have ignored its other allies and allowed Iran to do as it pleased with impunity? Should it have issued an embargo, preventing "the most modern middle eastern state" from ever achieving that title? Should it have ignored the appeals from Kuwaitis to intervene to protect their homes?

The US did not and does not habitually target civilian infrastructure, only dual-use stuff.

> Prime example of blowback as it led to ISIS.

ISIS is an outgrowth of al-Qaeda, which was founded in Pakistan as an outgrowth of the Mujahideen who were US-sponsored rebels in Afghanistan against the Soviet-backed government. They were also sponsored by China, Pakistan, the UK, Iran, and the Arab world. This was half a century ago. ISIS then got big as part of the Syrian revolution which was... not sponsored by the US, and was brutally put down by Russia.

But please, tell me more about how this is all America's fault. Clearly nobody else has any agency, right?

> While the US, or more correctly the UN, has done some peace keeping missions with decent results it pales in comparison to the chaos the US has created

No, the US has intervened outside of the UN with good results too. Funny you mention the UN while saying that hypocrisy is a uniquely American superpower - do you think that the other member states of the UN are bastions of morality?

We're not going to agree on this. I think that compared to similarly-sized and powerful countries like China or the USSR, the US has not acted that poorly.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you understand meaning behind air superiority.

I am glad that you do.

Then explain what you think it means, because your examples are about missile attacks on fixed bases, not control of the air.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That just means the military, aircraft carriers, all that, were so ineffective that the enemy didn't even need to bother destroying them to achieve victory. It doesn't matter what would have happened if various parameters were different, if only we had gone all out this one time, and the point of war isn't the act itself of making cool trucks shoot at each other, and it's silly to argue that your home isn't insecure…

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Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe GP was being sarcastic.

It's ok though - the US Forces do have 'the best logistics in the world' - that's not an unfair claim at all. They are exceedingly exceptional. But all of these systems have limits and characterizations. US would be hard pressed to keep 500K people full supplied and engaged in Pacific. It would take a while to ramp that up.

Sure, every logistics system has limits. But “it would take time to ramp up” isn’t the same as “the US can’t do it.”

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I know. That sounds about what it should be. Maybe less actually.

Why should drugs in America cost >2x the price of drugs in other countries?

Because that's what efficient pricing regimes do.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#737
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when I was young all the boat refugees from Vietnam. I could not understand why people said USA lost, but all the refugees were Vietnamese. If USA lost, whay were they not American?

In part because the communist government actively targeted former South Vietnamese military personnel, civil servants, and anyone who had collaborated with the United States. It was a civil war that the US got involved in, and they supported the side that lost.

Again, the US ceased combat operations in 1973; the Republic of Vietnam fell in 1975.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what the US tried to do. Yes but with the caveat that they wanted the lowest risk to US service members during the bombing. This means using up the fire and forget stuff rather than the guided munitions attached to planes. They have good air superiority, but poor logistical options to do that. The traditional way to do this is to park two carrier groups within 500 miles of the target and convey tonnes of che…

An undersold embarrassment of this fiasco is the Marine Corps has 10 (ten!) amphibious assault carriers that are more capable than most nations' flagships and we didn't see one of them even talked about. Why have we been floating these things for decades?

How would you propose we use them here? It seemed for a while like our military was at least prepping for a land invasion.

Maybe they could have been part of the landing but I'm sure as hell glad they didn't follow through with an invasion. The geography, supply line issues, and drone warfare would have been an absolute nightmare.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that any of that actually matters. Wars are not Call of Duty. It's politically difficult to invest actual manpower in Iran and Unless China were to nuke Hawaii, an all out war with China would also immediately be politically unpopular. China, like Iran, wouldn't doesn't need to defeat the US, they just need to hold out long enough for the US economy to collapse, which would happen way faster if China is…

I understand why war with Iran would raise gas prices, but why would war with China?

I'd assume any war between large militaries would.
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