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We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

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Re: We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

#151

Post by casey2 »

gmueckl wrote: post #98
happymellon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The window and its position shouldn't matter to the app. My tiling window manager doesn't care what your snowflake app thinks it wants, and I don't either.

Then continue to enjoy your broken popup menus and combo box drop downs, for starters.

It's not "my broken popup menus" since I'm not writing your app. This is some of the most basic portable software 101 I can't believe a real developer would complain about it.

If you do have that attitude there are a million other OOP style things to throw out for speed and correctness before virtual monitors and coordinating compositors

Re: We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

#152

Post by LiamPowell »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #137
LiamPowell wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firefox likes to draw the websites underneat the scrollbar. This was a choice that they actively made. It's not hard by default, they just chose to do something stupid because they think it looks pretty.

The way I read the parent commenter it almost seems like they feel that Google's decision was the really stupid one. Maybe neither one is that great.

I also agree it's stupid when google puts UI over the webpage, but at least in that case they're not going out of their way to do it over an existing alternative.

For anyone not aware of how bad google is getting about this: Did you know that "sign in with Google" panel that appears in the top right corner of websites is actually part of Chrome rather than the website?

Re: We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

#153

Post by chazzalpha »

Borealid wrote: post #49
seg6 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, both outcomes are bugs and neither is intended. The idea is simply that, content the site author intended to be horizontally centered stays literally centered on my screen when browser UI changes the viewport.

This is a nonsensical goal. If I drag a browser window to the right, making it cover the right-hand half of my monitor, it serves no useful purpose for "centered" content to migrate to the left edge of the window (the physical midpoint of the screen). Centered means centered within the virtual viewport, not the physical screen.

A solution in search of a problem, as it were

Re: We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

#154

Post by JoshTriplett »

LiamPowell wrote: post #84
hulitu wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I have a sidebar open, it's because that space is not yours to care about. Drawing UI is hard. Firefox likes to draw the websites underneat the scrollbar. Google likes to draw system nabigation buttons over the window with all kind of funny interractions. That's what happenes when you train people "on the job".

> Firefox likes to draw the websites underneat the scrollbar. This was a choice that they actively made. It's not hard by default, they just chose to do something stupid because they think it looks pretty.

I genuinely like the trend towards invisible scrollbars that only become larger if you want to drag them with the mouse, and that don't affect layout. This seems like a win for having more screen real-estate, both for the whole window and for smaller scrollable elements where the scrollbar might otherwise be a noticeable fraction of the element's size.

Re: We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

#155

Post by kbelder »

saghm wrote: post #144
thiht wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want them to add Subway Surfers in the sidebars? What would they display if there's nothing to display? This is such a weird criticism, do you think you want the text to use the full width? It would just be hard to read because of long lines, shorter lines are more comfortable It's not like unused space results in some kind of waste, this is not paper, blank space is okay

> It would just be hard to read because of long lines, shorter lines are more comfortable That's a pretty subjective view, and one at odds with literally every other website I can think of

It's a subjective view that a huge number of UX designers absolutely believe is 100% factual, unfortunately.

Re: We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

#156

Post by saghm »

kbelder wrote: post #155
saghm wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would just be hard to read because of long lines, shorter lines are more comfortable That's a pretty subjective view, and one at odds with literally every other website I can think of

It's a subjective view that a huge number of UX designers absolutely believe is 100% factual, unfortunately.

I've never run into another website using so little of my horizontal space before though, so I'm struggling to understand why this one is an outlier for me based on that explanation alone.

Re: We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

#158

Post by tredre3 »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #125
gmueckl wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then continue to enjoy your broken popup menus and combo box drop downs, for starters.

Are these broken popup menus and combo box dropdowns with us in the room right now? Yes, some things in some complex applications can break, but there are solutions and, practically, these particular things you listed simply aren't among those that break.

GNOME Files (nautilus) made the file property dialog a modal because they really want it to be centered relative to the file browser window and wayland didn't let them position or obtain coordinates.

The result is that you can't open open two file property dialogs at once (to compare sizes or dates or any other meta data, it's a common thing one might want to do).

Hopefully you'd agree that Wayland should allow apps to position windows relative to their own windows, at the very least.

Re: We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

#159

Post by tredre3 »

Telaneo wrote: post #117
woodrowbarlow wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wrapping text at 55-75 characters per line is often recommended in digital typography by UX. research implies that an optimum length exists to maximize reading speed, and although it depends on many factors 55-75 is often parroted as a universal rule.

And here I am, comfortable with and prefering lines at or above 200 characters. Given how many other changes have been made in the name of UX that have been gone compleatly against what those letters stand for, I'll press X to doubt on that one. To be fair, I read fairly quickly, so maybe this is true if you only read 100 words per minute or whatever.

Short columns aren't (only) about overall reading speed, it's about comfort.

When you're done reading a line your eyes must move back to the start of the next line. With short lines you can still fully see the end of the previous line so it's easy to locate. It's a lot harder to do with long lines.

Re: We finally learned to center a div, then browsers added sidebars

#160

Post by Telaneo »

tredre3 wrote: post #159
Telaneo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here I am, comfortable with and prefering lines at or above 200 characters. Given how many other changes have been made in the name of UX that have been gone compleatly against what those letters stand for, I'll press X to doubt on that one. To be fair, I read fairly quickly, so maybe this is true if you only read 100 words per minute or whatever.

Short columns aren't (only) about overall reading speed, it's about comfort. When you're done reading a line your eyes must move back to the start of the next line. With short lines you can still fully see the end of the previous line so it's easy to locate. It's a lot harder to do with long lines.

This doesn't reflect my own lived experience.
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