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Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

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Re: Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

#81
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It‘s actually stunning how inhumane this suggestion is. Especially, in the way it‘s made in the purely functional sense of human value as means of productivity and efficiency. Maybe I‘m missing the joke though.

What say you of warehouse workers? Of restaurant staff? These exist today and are dehumanized in much the same way, but perhaps with lesser effect. Don’t mistake my ill portent for enthusiasm. I merely foretell.

Obviously the same, when they are viewed through the same lens. And yes, I probably missed the sarcasm in your wording.

Re: Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

#82
> right about everything else

I suggest people greatly underestimate how localized expertise is. How very rapidly someone's expertise deteriorates as you move away from some focus, from the usually-very-narrow region where that expertise is externally nurtured.

A snark characterization of that region being, the issues where someone badly fears getting something wrong, and by that being embarrassed in front of the people whose opinion they much care about. One can have what superficially look like intellectual communities (picture DC thinktanks), which largely lack this property.

You can have someone well respected in their "real" subfield of biology, while being basically nutter in another subfield, which they care and think about, but aren't professionally embedded.

Ask a quantum chemist a protein chemistry question, and don't be surprised by a grad student answer. Ask "what causes the seasons?", and perhaps high-school or middle-school. Why would it be otherwise?

Even within focus, a bunch of research community gossip is discount functions. "Don't believe his observations using - he sees what he wants to see". "She always looking for things to be ."

For a recent impactful example, someone can be a successful CEO, notable engineering manager, and unusually good at thinking from first principles... while simultaneously, on other topics, being so batshit-crazy nutter that closely-held important views are 5+ orders of magnitude disconnected from reality. Because on those topics, their external community is nutter. And instead of finding this juxtaposition unsurprising, commenters twist themselves up trying to level that curve.

It's the shitty textbook publisher fallacy of "We'll find ourselves an outstanding professor of chemistry, and he'll write us an outstanding chemistry textbook". That's just not how this works.

> monoculture

Which brings us to groupthink. Expertise is a community-associated property.

In foreign affairs for example, the investment community is good at noticing and correctly evaluating some aspects of reality but not others, and similarly for diplomatic community, development, business, political, etc. Each has a partial view with systemic flaws.

I suggest groupthink is a critically important aspect of most human behavior. And yet somehow, we rarely manage to discuss this, and are repeatedly surprised by it. I'm unclear on why.

For decades I thought it bizarre that the New York Times didn't even manage to say the word. Until Trump and MAGA. Yay, a breakthrough? No, at least not the last time I checked several years ago. It remained associated with only Trump and MAGA. Some things are easier to see across the battlefield, than in the mirror, or literally everywhere?

Re: Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

#84

The post suffers a bit from sloppy ontology. The argument being made appears to be that improving technical ability at the edges of a graph doesn't help when governance of inter-node processes is still a primary limiting constraint. Ok. Yes. And it's a very strong position to take. But that's not the same thing as intelligence not being the bottleneck, because governance is absolutely a manifestation of intelligence.…

> Good governance takes intelligence.

True, but that doesn't mean intelligence is the bottleneck of good governance. Good governance also requires simple, plain brute force. You have to herd millions of cats, all of which have their own intelligence, and the richest of which are basically giant tigers. At our current level of individual intelligence, we have plenty of simple solutions to many of the problems that plague us, but the reality of the boiling ocean of society is that it tends to crush them faster than they can be built up.

When the problem is the coordination of intelligent agents with disparate interests, increasing everyone's intelligence isn't necessarily going to lead to a solution. Maybe if everyone operates in good faith with a compromising spirit. But if our best solution creates losers, they will fight to the bitter end, in which case we don't need intelligence as much as we need a bigger boot. That's governance.

Re: Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

#85

I think the next bottleneck is embodiment. AI can lay the best laid plans, but who will execute it? I think a possible solution to the dual problems of AI embodiment and unemployment is humans becoming avatars for AI. Imagine one of the unskilled masses donning a headset and being guided through all manner of work? Roofing, ACHVAC, stocking shelves, etc… No need to train anybody.

There is a Novel about this: Manna, by Marchall Brian. Their website that used to host it is down but here is the wayback version from 2019: https://web.archive.org/web/20190312023349/http://marshallbr...

In it, employees wore headsets run by the AI which instruct them task by task:

"Jane, when you are through with this customer, please close your register. Then we will clean the women's restroom."

Manna: "Place the 'wet floor' warning cone outside the door please."

When Jane completed the task, she would speak the word "OK" into her headset and Manna moved to the next step in the restroom cleaning procedure.

Manna: "Please block the door open with the door stop."

Jane: "OK."

Manna: "Please retrieve the bucket and mop from the supply closet."

Jane: "OK."

Re: Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

#86

Climate change is another big problem that frontier AI labs have handwaved away as being "solvable" by AGI. The premise that a pure superintelligence could hand us a plan to beat climate change that's so good and airtight that A) it would definitely work and B) people would execute it. But there have been entire books written about the fact that right now we have the technology to drastically curtail climate change a…

Agree.

They are effectively arguing that AI will be God-like.

I don't mean here God in the religiously charged sense but in the philosophical sense.

A god is simply a person or thing that grants salvation.

Whether that's looking to a rain god to to solve a drought, a luck god to to solve a series of bad events, etc.

It doesn't matter how the god does it but the adherents trust that the god has the powers to do it.

In this case the idea is that the AI is going to be all-knowing and all-wise, and thus can lead mankind towards every manner of salvation.

It has a god-like flavor to it.

Re: Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

#87

"He looked at me incredulously. Surely, a smart person like me should know that AI, or better said, AGI will be hyperpersuasive soon – already on a bunch of benchmarks it exceeds professional debaters at persuasion." I'm always tickled by this tic of this kind of person, that human traits are something that we can maximize to infinity. That if we trained a robot to tell jokes, it would eventually tell jokes so funny…

This has been a core belief of the EA/LessWrong/Rationalist people for many years - that above a certain level of intelligence you effectively get hypnotic powers, and people will obey AIs no matter what. So they said you can't keep a superpowered AI airgapped as merely offering a chat interface will immediately take control of the next person to interact with it and they will deliberately compromise the airgapping.

Maybe less "far out" than hypnosis is just straight up logical debates.

This was a plot point in the Halo lore actually, with Mendicant Bias being reasoned with to defect against its own makers.

Re: Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

#88
Reminds me of the recent economist interview with Elon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuoqKYxDHVc&t=1880s

Minton Beddoes: What people who lose their jobs, who are displaced, who may go off and garden, but how are they going to live? And what kind of I mean, it sounds to me...

Musk: universal high income

Minton Beddoes: but how are you going to get there? Let's talk about the politics of this cuz right now we if we look at the political pressures in most countries people are very very worried about this very against it. I mean it seems to me that there's a risk that we are heading more for revolution than for an easy route to this nirvana you're playing out.

Musk: I mean it will be a bumpy road. I'm not suggesting it will be sort of that everything will be smooth sailing here. Um, so I mean there are many jobs that used to exist that don't exist because of computers. I mean the the word computer used to refer to a person doing computations like that used to be a job description of a person. And you can see pictures online of um of buildings that... drifts away

Re: Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

#89
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would go further and say that the human should be the bottleneck/blocker. If not designed for and to serve humans, which means to have human in the position of power and control and take in account all the various human oddities, why are we building all of this?

> why are we building all of this? To remove humans from power in all cases where our biases and animalistic nature would cause unnecessary suffering to others. As a species we are quickly approaching some very hard problems that no individual, or even small group, is capable of handling in a consistently rational manner. On our current trajectory of resource constraints and habitability constrictions, ethics by the…

Reminds me of the joke "Want to lose an ugly 20lbs? Cut off your head!"

Re: Intelligence Is Not the Main Bottleneck

#90

"He looked at me incredulously. Surely, a smart person like me should know that AI, or better said, AGI will be hyperpersuasive soon – already on a bunch of benchmarks it exceeds professional debaters at persuasion." I'm always tickled by this tic of this kind of person, that human traits are something that we can maximize to infinity. That if we trained a robot to tell jokes, it would eventually tell jokes so funny…

> You can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced.

I think this is true. But it doesn’t get rid of the possibility of hyperpersuasive bots, just, points to a reason they might not be as consequential as expected. I think bots that are very good at writing rhetoric might happen (why not? They are already good at math and chess), and they would be devastating to the spaces where people go online and argue with anonymous strangers. But I don’t know if that’ll matter. Could be bad for bloggers. Complex for policy people.

IMO if we’re really honest with ourselves, I think we get more of our opinions by stewing in memes and other social processes. Offline or online. The sort of hyperpersuasive ML that we really should have been worrying about was the Twitter/reddit/Tick-Tock engagement algorithms.

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