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The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

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Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#111

Post by bluGill »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #5

I have a buddy who did his Human Factors PHd at wright state/wright patt nearly 15 years ago. "Tech people" have a lot of lies they believe, about disabilities, about valid addresses, everything. When he told me that schools for the blind train their student to fact check things like directions and not simply rely on a single source while navigating new terrain it clicked for me that the sighted have no clue and symp…

> train their student to fact check things like directions

In college I had a blind guy ask me how to get to some building on campus. I looked up and the was sign of the building he wanted into. It still took me several tries to get him useful directions. I know that I can duck under that railing..., but how to explain that - I still don't know. I did eventually get him there, but it is a lot harder than you think and I only needed to get him about 5 meters.

Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#112

Post by threatofrain »

antonvs wrote: post #55
TulliusCicero wrote: post #6

While I can understand the frustration and the author makes some good points, a lot of the anger feels oddly misplaced. Yes, engineer types want to solve problems with inventions rather than overhauling the entire nation's infrastructure. Maybe, just maybe, that's because inventing something is actually within their grasp, whereas wholesale replacing every civil engineer and architect in the country isn't? Or replaci…

> Maybe, just maybe, that's because inventing something is actually within their grasp The problem is that inventing a solution that no-one needs or wants and then using venture money to hype it up feels like rubbing salt in a wound for the very people they're claiming to try to help. The point is they're not actually trying to help those people. They're using them as a marketing tool to further their own ambition to…

These nameless people could very well want to help people. A device that costs as much as a Honda Civic? Yes, that's exactly the kind of stuff that happens as you attempt to mature a product.

I was working on a drone automation system at another company. The initial prototypes were also in the Honda Civic multiplier range. The companies that bought into us knew the price tag. The customers who wanted conventional products with conventional pricing... ignored us!

Once you develop an actual manufacturing line the costs go away down, but first you must develop that maturity.

Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#113

Post by jnovek »

the_other wrote: post #44
TulliusCicero wrote: post #6

While I can understand the frustration and the author makes some good points, a lot of the anger feels oddly misplaced. Yes, engineer types want to solve problems with inventions rather than overhauling the entire nation's infrastructure. Maybe, just maybe, that's because inventing something is actually within their grasp, whereas wholesale replacing every civil engineer and architect in the country isn't? Or replaci…

It's both "the entire nation's infrastructure." and not that. What I mean is... many cases are individual: the ramp for that library; the door knobs/handles in that office; the floor indicators in this lift/elevator; the audio announcements (or lack of) on the busses/trains; the small print on contracts; live subtitling at the theatre; the checkout button on this web site; the checkout button on that website. You get…

> the Social Model of disability

The best way I’ve heard this articulated is:

Under the medical model, disabled individuals are expected to change their behavior to accommodate (fit on with) society. We ask people whose lives are already more difficult than average to do additional work.

Under the social model, we ask all able-bodied people to accommodate disabled individuals instead. Further, the social model says that any policy that affects disabled people should be crafted by or with disabled people who are affected by that policy. Nothing about us without us.

I’m disabled and became disabled as an adult and, in my experience, after becoming disabled I’ve faced rampant discrimination that wasn’t there before. I’ve been fired twice in the last 10 years due to disability-related issues. I have no recourse, anything I could do would risk torpedoing my career. This is life under the medical model. You’re expected to live a smaller existence.

I support the social model. It’s the one where I get to have agency.

Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#114

Post by why_at »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #6

While I can understand the frustration and the author makes some good points, a lot of the anger feels oddly misplaced. Yes, engineer types want to solve problems with inventions rather than overhauling the entire nation's infrastructure. Maybe, just maybe, that's because inventing something is actually within their grasp, whereas wholesale replacing every civil engineer and architect in the country isn't? Or replaci…

I think their anger is justified. Yes there's not a lot that individual engineers can do to help, but a big part of the problem is that they don't even understand the people they're "helping".

These tech gadgets are the annoying experience we've all had of someone taking a look at a problem from the outside and proposing unhelpful "solutions" that won't work because they don't fully understand it.

It reminds me of conversations I've had with people who suffer from insomnia. They say that everyone has some suggestion to just try melatonin, or not use screens before bed, or whatever. As though they haven't tried these things.

Yes they're just trying to be helpful, but it comes off as patronizing.

Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#115

Post by bluGill »

meatmanek wrote: post #84
fluoridation wrote: post #58

>every time I see one of these vapid videos. >And watching the video, >I am blind Um... EDIT: Actually, the post reads as if two different people wrote it. The first half doesn't mention anything about blindness, and the second half doesn't mention anything about wheelchairs. But there's only one credit, so I don't know what's going on.

1. it's possible that the author is blind in a legal sense but not completely blind -- e.g. maybe they only have vision in the center of their visual field, or maybe they have low acuity. You'll often see people with white canes wearing glasses, which would be pointless if they had absolutely zero vision. 2. It's not uncommon for people to use terms like "watch", "see", "hear", "listen", etc. colloquially / metaphori…

Almost all blind people can see the sun. In the US blind legally means your eyes cannot be corrected to better than 20/200 - without glasses my eyes are worth than that so I have a good idea of what the low end of blind would be like. I take my glasses off to read. (of course most people who are blind will be much worse than me without glasses - but we can safely assume at least some of them can watch TV and get something out of it)

Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#116

Post by bluGill »

busterarm wrote: post #66

One company I was at wouldn't even keep basic first aid supplies stocked. Facilities succesfully made a big push to get a bunch of people CPR/AED training, especially because it was free. I then made the obvious point that we had no AEDs and should get some. Absolute crickets.

Weird, AEDs are cheap enough. Most companies I know have them now. They need to be checked to ensure they still work (that is the battery isn't dead)

Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#117

Post by jnovek »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #71
the_other wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both "the entire nation's infrastructure." and not that. What I mean is... many cases are individual: the ramp for that library; the door knobs/handles in that office; the floor indicators in this lift/elevator; the audio announcements (or lack of) on the busses/trains; the small print on contracts; live subtitling at the theatre; the checkout button on this web site; the checkout button on that website. You get…

But don't you see how the fact that many cases are individual makes it harder? You mention doorknobs, and it's easy to declare (which is why the US government has declared) that lever style door handles are more accessible and should be preferred. It's hard, impossibly so, to construct a world where nobody with wrist mobility problems will ever encounter a round doorknob they'd like to open.

It seems like the implication here is “if we can’t do anything, we shouldn’t do anything at all” under the social model.

Not every doorknob will be disability friendly. If pressure from the social model fixes 20% of doorknobs, now there is a group of people can open 20% of doors where they could open 0% before.

Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#118

Post by roughly »

thereisnospork wrote: post #19
watwut wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many "engineer types" will gladly care about doorknobs and infrastructure details. There is ideological opposition against from business types and some other tech types. > it's not the tech companies' fault that it's perennially underfunded, it's politicians and the voters who put them there. Tech companies pushed for exactly that outcome and spent a lot on lobbying and convincing. We totally can blame them for it.

How are Tech companies fighting public transit? At least in these parts a relatively high fraction of their employees commute by (private) bus. I can only presume that Tech companies would prefer the government provide safe, clean, and timely bussing for the public to save the company the cost and effort.

Every time a tech company lobbies against taxes, they’re fighting public transit. Every time they spend the exact same money they just argued shouldn’t go to the state on privatized busses, they’re fighting public transit.

Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#119

Post by ambicapter »

perpetuallunch wrote: post #109
harimau777 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet even if we accept your premise, he is still worlds better than the alternatives.

[flagged]

> Give that guy a chance to properly fuck things up before you pass judgment.

You should do the same.

> And anyway, since life isn’t a Git branch, we’ll never know if the alternatives were better or worse in practice.

Oh, so you wouldn't be able to tell, either? Man, there's a lot of concepts you espouse that you should really apply to yourself.

Re: The "Disability Dongle": Why Silicon Valley Hates Me and You

#120

Post by pavel_lishin »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #6

While I can understand the frustration and the author makes some good points, a lot of the anger feels oddly misplaced. Yes, engineer types want to solve problems with inventions rather than overhauling the entire nation's infrastructure. Maybe, just maybe, that's because inventing something is actually within their grasp, whereas wholesale replacing every civil engineer and architect in the country isn't? Or replaci…

> but it's not the tech companies' fault that it's perennially underfunded

I mean, it's certainly a factor: https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/uber-lyft-proposition-l-...

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