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Discovery Loop

discoveryloop.com

131–140 of 630 posts

Re: Discovery Loop

#131
Two to keep in mind with these kinds of things -

1. There’s some irreducible costs in terms of time and material in the physical world that are not amenable to the kind of optimization or parallelization or even just the raw speedup from Moore’s law or computational architecture improvements we’re used to with software. My experience is primarily in biology, where the examples here are things like “it takes 20 minutes for E. coli to replicate” - it has taken 20 minutes for E. coli to replicate for a billion years, and next year it will still take E. coli 20 minutes to replicate, no matter how good your software stack is. Similarly, it takes X amount of energy to grow enough E. coli to produce a meaningful result, and that energy costs money, whether it’s in the form of glycerine or heat or whatever you want, and that also won’t materially reduce in the same kinds of “orders of magnitude” sense we’re used to from software, which is what we’re usually expecting to make the economics of these things work out.

2. Complicating the above, physical systems are phenomenally multivariate - far, far more than you think, and biological systems especially are just unbelievably complex - which means the number of experiments and the length and duration of those experiments you need to run to get enough data to be reasonably confident you’re seeing genuine signal is Way higher than you think.

Combine those two things and what you get is a money furnace, even before you get to the AI model training part, which is Also a money furnace. There’s low hanging fruits in all this, there’s areas where automating the approach can be really valuable, but typically the moment you turn this machine on, you’re gonna start burning money at a rate that would embarrass a finance bro on a coke bender, and that’s effectively unavoidable because the real world is not amenable to software’s scaling laws.

Re: Discovery Loop

#132

From Jeff's twitter post: > Our general approach is to automate the experimental loop. We think this approach is broadly applicable across many different fields of science and engineering. We’ll initially focus on ML research and engineering, but believe the approach can help with important subproblems in nearly every one of the fourteen NAE Grand Challenge problems. We think doing this well requires strong expertise…

Why is "12. Enhance Virtual Reality" in there? T_T

I guess if we failed to Prevent Nuclear Terror the bunker denizens of the future are gonna need somewhere to hang out.

Re: Discovery Loop

#133

From Jeff's twitter post: > Our general approach is to automate the experimental loop. We think this approach is broadly applicable across many different fields of science and engineering. We’ll initially focus on ML research and engineering, but believe the approach can help with important subproblems in nearly every one of the fourteen NAE Grand Challenge problems. We think doing this well requires strong expertise…

Sandbox 2.0 But also, solar power is already economical.

Many of these problems don't seem scientific at all, but rather a problem of political will.

As you said, Solar power is incredibly economical. There are plenty of ideas around putting them over farms, or parking lots en-masse to provide cleaner energy.

Access to clean drinking water, while certainly scientific in some situations, is also a problem of political will and money.

Restore and Improve Urban Infrastructure - It's infrastructure week!

Re: Discovery Loop

#134
> Imagine a future where a handful of people can conduct scientific research and engineering tasks much more rapidly, and with higher quality, than massive teams of scientists and engineers do today.

Imagine a future where only the anointed few elite minds can participate in science and engineering. Btw we’re hiring.

Great message!

Re: Discovery Loop

#135
post #32

Jeff Dean, Sanjay, et al have achieved so much. I'm very happy for them. Truly deserving. Sometimes I couldn't resist wondering if I'll ever do work that has a tenth of the impact of theirs.

Gemini has done absolutely nothing for me. I can't even shut off the navigation feature on my phone using only hands free, when I get close to my destination. I have to take my eyes off the road, look down, and tap to exit.

Google's advanced AI cannot even exit a mobile app.

Re: Discovery Loop

#137
post #69

"Our mission is straightforward" continued by the most complex sentence on that page. Wondering what the definition of straightforward is now

Right. What about the scientific hardware (instruments, sensors, robotics)? Partnerships with existing research institutions? Dealing with restricted data? Modernizing science is a lot more complicated than just optimizing the inner experimental loop, but their hiring page implies it's a pure ML lab focused mainly on model development.

Yeah. ML is all well and good, but how are they going to do the science their machines design? Atoms cost money.

Re: Discovery Loop

#138
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only works for a very narrow definition of what science is And so does academia. It's just that instead of AI and robotics, PhD students are thrown onto problems that are in large parts slightly tweaked reconfigurations of similar experiments. Especially in chemistry, biochemistry, material sciences there is a large space of discoveries that are barely "novel" in an intellectually stimulating way, but still highly…

That is true, I’ve seen people do biochemistry and geology work, and it did look very mind-numbing. Then again, gassing rats and taking biopsies is not something you can do with AI.

> Then again, gassing rats and taking biopsies is not something you can do with AI.

Also, like, let’s maybe _not_ make the “gassing and cutting living organisms open” AI? Let’s just leave that particular genie in its bottle?

Re: Discovery Loop

#139

From Jeff's twitter post: > Our general approach is to automate the experimental loop. We think this approach is broadly applicable across many different fields of science and engineering. We’ll initially focus on ML research and engineering, but believe the approach can help with important subproblems in nearly every one of the fourteen NAE Grand Challenge problems. We think doing this well requires strong expertise…

I would say 5, 6, 10 can be even done today if we had right politicians that can make policies for the people
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