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Cloudflare OS: an open platform for agents, apps, and work

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Re: Cloudflare OS: an open platform for agents, apps, and work

#121
post #4

I liked Kenton's take on this: https://x.com/KentonVarda/status/2084990137180590572?s=20 Text from tweet: Today we are releasing Cloudflare OS, a chatbot with connectors, just like every other tech company is doing. Except actually, it's different. This is a remake of Sandstorm[.]io, my startup from 10 years ago, except this time built on Cloudflare Workers (the platform I've spent the last 9 years building) and deep…

I don't get it

How is this different than the capabilities which cowork by claude / chat gpt desktop apps now a days give in terms of core capabilities.

The fact that you can maybe fetch bugs from jira and present in the way you want is true for any of the agentic orchestrators, so is it really the USP ?

One difference I found against other orchestrators was that they work on a per seat billing model. Example if you have 10 team members who want access to a shared agent infrastructure, you would end up paying 10 * 20$ = 200$ per month while in this case it is probably just the AI and infrastructure bill that you have to spend, which probably might cross 200 dollars as well.

Re: Cloudflare OS: an open platform for agents, apps, and work

#124
post #55

Everytime I read about new things from Cloudflare they look really cool but I cannot shake the feeling of not wanting to use them for fear of lock-in, am I too paranoid?

Yes. Be locked in. It's better to go 100% and only pay the switch costs if you have to. Developing abstractions to let you switch technologies has 2 costs: The actual development, and not fully utilizing a specific technology. Lots of people prefer pain in small doses because it can be rationalized as eventual payoff. There are degrees of this decision, of course, but I would say most folks worry too much about this…

> Yes. Be locked in.

That'd be fine if the decision just affected the decision-maker's system. But the secondary effects are that it binds the external users of that system to the vendor's ToS.

Re: Cloudflare OS: an open platform for agents, apps, and work

#127
post #49
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? This is 100% open source and self-hostable! https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-os It runs on the open source Workers Runtime: https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd You can run it at home if you want. There's even a Home Assistant Gatekeeper.

So you can run it off the public internet with no sneaky external dependency on cloudflare, slack etc? And it would be functionally the same? With the same performance if you put enough hardware there? If so cool, and that should have been clearly in the announcement, because as it sounded it is “I am a sucker, lock me in!”

You're not alone The name "cloudflare-os" by itself made me think this was heavily based on Cloudflare

Re: Cloudflare OS: an open platform for agents, apps, and work

#128
post #79
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really interesting. I built a similar product (not released yet), but it uses Kubernetes as the infrastructure layer instead of Cloudflare OS. I guess all these years later I am left with the same existential question that plagued Sandstorm. What is its relevance in the context of Linux containers? This is not a rhetorical question, is there a real benefit for a Sandstorm grain over a docker style Linux conta…

Sandstorm's use of containers was just a means to an end. The real innovation was the fine-grained instances -- each document in its own container. No other container platform did that. But honestly, it didn't work well, because of cold start times and memory usage. It's bad enough when a server takes seconds to start, but if every document you open has a long startup time and uses hundreds of MB of RAM, it's really…

This is far too Cloudflare flavored to be interesting to me.

It's using Workers (capital W) and the core Cloudflare primitives.

I don't feel safe building on this or touching this.

I'd be happier if a startup or neutral party built this in a more agnostic way.

Re: Cloudflare OS: an open platform for agents, apps, and work

#129
This is revolutionary stuff. It crystalises latent thoughts I've had about how to safely integrate agentic capability for serious work.

We're starting to see indifferently architected AI creep into every engineering tool, from requirements management to coding, MATLAB, EDA and Solidworks. At the same time we see LLMs orchestrating long running hacking campaigns that will leverage other agents and automation to propagate. We really need an architecture that can handle that complexity.

Kenton Varda hitting the ball out of the park again.

Re: Cloudflare OS: an open platform for agents, apps, and work

#130
post #4

I liked Kenton's take on this: https://x.com/KentonVarda/status/2084990137180590572?s=20 Text from tweet: Today we are releasing Cloudflare OS, a chatbot with connectors, just like every other tech company is doing. Except actually, it's different. This is a remake of Sandstorm[.]io, my startup from 10 years ago, except this time built on Cloudflare Workers (the platform I've spent the last 9 years building) and deep…

Oh, wow! This is a lot clearer to me. I've long had a soft spot in my heart about Sandstorm. Here's a comment[0] I made 11 years ago about what Sandstorm was, to me:

> I'm a web developer, but I can't really use my skills to provide an open source web app the way I'd like to. I'd like to build a small server-side budgeting app that people can use from their computers or phones to record expenses, but there's no way I can ask people to find a web host that lets them run rails, or set up a heroku account or whatever.

> So my only alternative would be to run the service myself, but then I'm storing other people's data, I have to worry about scaling if lots of people use it, and user accounts, and all this stuff.

> The idea of sandstorm is folks run this platform on their personal servers, and then it lets you browse an app store like interface and one-click install these server side apps. So I'd bundle up my budgeting rails app as a sandstorm package, and if someone wants to track their expenses from a variety of devices, they install the app. Now they're running it so the data is theirs, there's no scaling issues, and user authentication is provided by sandstorm.

It was a beautiful thing that tried to thread the needle between personal, self-hosted software and cloud-based "software as a service". I've long thought that "federated" software is the sweetspot, since it allows people to control software in more natural organizational units like families or communities, without being centrally controlled or devolving into the craziness that is "decentralized".

However, while the functionality of Cloudflare OS may be Sandstorm-inspired, I feel like it doesn't really have its soul. What a difference a decade makes! Here's another comment[1] from me 10 years ago about why I loved sandstorm, which begins:

> Oh no! I really believe sandstorm (or something like it) is what we need the future to be. Rather than having everything get sucked up into Google, Facebook, Apple, or these other few centralized services, imagine where everyone has a personal (or family, or church group or whatever) server, and they can one-click install their email apps, their document apps, etc.

These days Cloudflare has become one of the "Google, Facebook, Apple" that I mentioned. I'm still a fan of Cloudflare generally, and with kentonv behind this I absolutely have to try it out, but it doesn't have the open source, community-oriented charm that I think Sandstorm had.

edit: Oh, I didn't read far enough down the tweet chain:

> I am so proud to say, we are making this whole thing open source, Apache 2.0 license, no catch.

Hooray! Sandstorm's back on the menu, boys! This really does make me happy. I never should have doubted, ha.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10237821

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13589471

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