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Not hiring junior engineers won't solve the problem you think you have

franciscotrindade.me

11–20 of 117 posts

Re: Not hiring junior engineers won't solve the problem you think you have

#11

very hard for junior engineers out there now.

There are too many new grads and the quality bar outside of target programs has dropped nor never existed to begin with.

And the target programs graduate around 15-20k EECS adjacent majors a year.

It's hard to justify hiring a (choosing random college) CS@Ouachita Baptist University grad for $140K TC (50th percentile for an entry level SWE) or even $100K TC [0] (25th percentile for an entry level SWE) unless they are truly an outlier.

For example, back in college I had a buddy who really didn't want to take our OS class because it was hard, so he used transferology and found an OS class offered by some random Christian university in Texas where the class assignments were either writing biblical analogies for system programming concepts like memory management or basic fizzbuzz level assignments. My alma mater's CS program ended up blacklisting that college when admin was working on transferring the credits for that class and began reviewing the class's curriculum.

While that is an extreme example, outside of target programs, the quality bar drops dramatically, and an entire generation of grads are truly unemployable at the current prevailing wages.

[0] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/levels/entry-leve...

Re: Not hiring junior engineers won't solve the problem you think you have

#14
I'm not sure I understand the logic that we wouldn't hire Juniors because now we have AI.

What jobs are Juniors doing that AI can now do? I don't get juniors to build me entire web sites or implement complicated agentic pieces of work. Most of the time, we hire Juniors to help fill the talent pool with the hope that they will be productive in a few months. If we think that we don't need to refill the pool now because of AI, then that is daft although I can understand a period where companies are deciding whether they still need 50 Developers instead of 20 + AI.

For me, the worst change for Juniors is remote working. I don't want the experience of newly qualified engineer being sitting in their bedroom all day chatting to people on Teams and not knowing when they can interrupt and when they can't. We used to have an office so we could at least do 2 days per week together but we don't any more. The banter, the office, the observation, the overhearing things is a critical part of both learning engineering and learning how to be part of a workplace.

Re: Not hiring junior engineers won't solve the problem you think you have

#15
I would have liked the article to address more specifically what skills will be needed in the future and how engineers of all levels will learn them. Senior engineers in my circle feel their own brainrot, and at the same time feel like super wizards combining our deep software knowledge with the amazing AI dev tools. How will the AI native engineers learn the things, do they need to learn the things, what does anybody need to learn anyway? Let’s talk about it.

Re: Not hiring junior engineers won't solve the problem you think you have

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s so necessary make sure to use your real account next time

[flagged]

you can be critical without being abraisive or demeaning about it.

a professional opinion includes some professionalism

Re: Not hiring junior engineers won't solve the problem you think you have

#17
This blogpost didn't really address the elephant in the room that increasingly the bottleneck is no longer the part that jr devs could help out with.

Every startup I know that hired some level of jr's and encouraged them to use AI found themselves in a code review bottleneck for basic code quality and architecture decisions. Many startups I know are largely forgoing jr devs.

Code quality regarding evolvability, reliability, maintainability is still part of the development process. All of the people who claimed src code is just assembly on Twitter some months ago have started chiming in that they were wrong.

I do wonder what this does to the talent pipeline like mentioned in the post.

Re: Not hiring junior engineers won't solve the problem you think you have

#18
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

you can be critical without being abraisive or demeaning about it. a professional opinion includes some professionalism

Are we worried about offending the machine?

Re: Not hiring junior engineers won't solve the problem you think you have

#19

Hiring seniors is a waste of money. You need someone who knows enough to drive LLMs, but not too much more. The LLMs are good enough to do the debugging, the coding, and a big part of the design work and system architecture. Most of the work today is manual testing and feeding the bugs back into the LLMs.

Is this a poorly instructed llm? Or a poorly constructed thought?

Re: Not hiring junior engineers won't solve the problem you think you have

#20
post #14

I'm not sure I understand the logic that we wouldn't hire Juniors because now we have AI. What jobs are Juniors doing that AI can now do? I don't get juniors to build me entire web sites or implement complicated agentic pieces of work. Most of the time, we hire Juniors to help fill the talent pool with the hope that they will be productive in a few months. If we think that we don't need to refill the pool now because…

You’re in a whirlwind of propaganda at the moment. The talking points and takes are mostly planted. Even the title has an inner circle nod to it.
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