Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

wardsauto.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 116 posts

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#91

Post by rsynnott »

echelon wrote: post #54
karlgkk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little of what you said is based on fact, only grievance. Very few cities in the us are actively anti car, and the ones that are, are dense enough that vehicle emissions are a local problem for them. We’re not demanding evs for ourselves, we’re demanding gas cars stop gassing our homes. You want to drive a v8 dually? Great, go nuts! Keep it out of SF!

> only grievance They're ripping up lanes of traffic in my city and replacing them with bike lanes that nobody uses. The busy intersection next to my home used to take all of 15 seconds to turn at, now I get stuck for five to six minutes at a time because they now forbid right turns on red and stuck left turners in front of right turners. Meanwhile, nobody is using the bike lanes. The bike lanes are gender and age in…

> A typical bike rider's coffee and book reading activities do not match a trip to Target and a local restaurant with family in terms of economic impact.

... Most people going into cities, whether on bikes or cars or trains or buses or the largely fictitious VTOL aircraft from the article, are doing so to _work_, not to buy stuff. "Buying stuff" has been shifting away from city centers for about fifty years, initially via retail parks, then the internet.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#92

Post by rsynnott »

quantified wrote: post #61
Oanid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People on bikes are not doing these things and are not contributing to the tax base as much as car drivers If you live in car dependent suburbia, sure. And it sounds like you do. And again, little of what you said is based on fact, only grievance.

As someone who enjoys riding their own bike, but uses their car for needs that cannot be met by bikes, I don't think this is just grievance. You can be sour about reality. SF in particular can be a pain in the butt. There are scearios where public transit works, and many where it doesn't. Biking there from anywhere else is not viable. I need to drive into it in cases when transit doesn't work, and the city is hostile…

... What do you want them to do, demolish buildings to widen the roads? Like, there are limits.

> Great for some of its own residents, not for all of them, definitely not for visitors.

Cities primarily exist for the convenience of the people who live and work in them, not for people visiting them.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#93

Post by neogodless »

lelanthran wrote: post #56
reverius42 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of 2010 Toyotas still out there, running great, if you want one. The market has instead demanded more different-looking cars (for variety), and generally larger vehicles with a higher riding position, not to mention newer creature comforts like air conditioned seats, and safety features like beeping at you when a car is in your blind spot and you try to change lanes. The evidence that this is what th…

> There are plenty of 2010 Toyotas still out there, running great, if you want one. That's not my point. My point is that the billions poured into designing the three new generations of Toyota since 2010 did not have to be spent by Toyota. But they did spend it, to design new cars, with little to no actual improvements, and so they have had to price their new cars appropriately, to recoup the cost. What would a brand…

There are quite a few dozen auto manufacturers. Why is Toyota one of the largest global sellers? Why hasn't a competitor simply made a "good enough" car and sold it in perpetuity, raking in higher profits than the manufacturers who keep adding features and redesigning the sheet metal?

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#94

Post by testing22321 »

autoexec wrote: post #43

> Because a single autonomous vehicle operating in a shared fleet can replace multiple privately owned cars, the widespread adoption of this technology can’t help but reduce new-car sales volumes. The idea that that a huge number of people will give up their private cars for robot-taxis in the next 20 years is laughable. They don't even exist in the vast majority of the country, and it's not even clear that they can…

> The idea that that a huge number of people will give up their private cars for robot-taxis in the next 20 years is laughable. They don't even exist in the vast majority of the country, and it's not even clear that they can function everywhere with our current technology. In just the past year we've seen how the technology we have today is still struggling with how to properly deal with basic things like red traffic lights and school buses

(2007) The idea that smartphones will replace landlines in the next 20 years is laughable. The CEO of the biggest competitor even wrote it off as too expensive.

Same identical story with reusable rockets, right down to the competition saying it will never happen.

Same identical story with other industries and products.

My point is, When it happens, it will happen fast. Also cars are even more likely to do this because you have to Keep in mind that outside enthusiasts, nobody wants the expense and hassle of private car ownership.

They want the convenience of personal transport, but they’re stupidly expensive. The first company that gives the mass market what they want at scale will be massive.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#95

Post by rjrjrjrj »

lelanthran wrote: post #77
danaris wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be unaware of all the recent safety improvements in cars: things like anti-lock brakes, collision avoidance, and traction control have saved countless lives, and they're being improved on even today. "The things cars had in them when I was first driving are all they should ever need; everything else is frivolous, planned obsolescence, or fashion" is a very tempting position to hold, but it doesn't actually h…

> You must be unaware of all the recent safety improvements in cars: things like anti-lock brakes, collision avoidance, and traction control have saved countless lives, and they're being improved on even today. First, those are almost all in the 2010 Toyota that I used as an example. Other than those things (which are in the 2010 model), what did the post-2010 models bring? Second, none of those require an entire new…

Collision avoidance in a 2010 Toyota? Pretty sure that didn't become a mainstream feature until a few years later, along with lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control.

Regardless, many features that existed in some form in 2010 that time have improved since then. Maybe just slow incremental improvement, but over time it adds up.

A few other new/much improved features since 2010 that come to mind: backup/turn signal cameras, carplay, hybrid engines.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#96

Post by dd8601fn »

xtiansimon wrote: post #84
echelon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in cities decided they wanted less car-centric infrastructure. People in cities demanded EVs, yet didn't show up to keep buying them. People in cities apparently know best what car companies should build, yet they don't buy the cars. Car companies build for suburbanites. Suburbanites buy cars.

> “Suburbanites buy cars” True for Long Island, NY. Can’t go to to the store 0.3 miles away without driving your cage. Kids take the bus to school in even the best weather, that is if their parents don’t drive them.

Increasingly us suburbanites don’t even do that. The grocery now comes to us.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#97

Post by neogodless »

testing22321 wrote: post #3

All the major US OEMs are dead companies walking. Even the CEO of Ford said if Chinese automobiles are allowed into the US it will be the death of US manufacturing. Total acknowledgment US vehicles are inferior, but no desire or drive to compete, only stifle. It’s sad, and the outcome is entirely predictable.

It will be interesting to watch such predictions play out.

I'll guess that it's not quite like that.

First, propaganda is powerful, and people buy based on what they believe. And right now, U.S. car buyers do not universally believe that EV is better than gas/hybrid, nor do they believe the cheapest car is best, or that features are the only thing that matters.

In fact, they go to a dealership, probably for a brand they are already somewhat loyal to, or the marketing worked. And they buy whatever their monthly payment allows, even if it's a lot more car than they need.

Second, they like big "American" cars like pickup trucks and huge SUVs. Take a look at how many full-sized pickups are sold every year in the U.S. Until the foreign-made full-sized electric trucks are palatable and competitive with what U.S. buyers are currently buying, those OEMs will continuing making and selling them.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#98

Post by testing22321 »

neogodless wrote: post #97
testing22321 wrote: post #3

All the major US OEMs are dead companies walking. Even the CEO of Ford said if Chinese automobiles are allowed into the US it will be the death of US manufacturing. Total acknowledgment US vehicles are inferior, but no desire or drive to compete, only stifle. It’s sad, and the outcome is entirely predictable.

It will be interesting to watch such predictions play out. I'll guess that it's not quite like that. First, propaganda is powerful, and people buy based on what they believe. And right now, U.S. car buyers do not universally believe that EV is better than gas/hybrid, nor do they believe the cheapest car is best, or that features are the only thing that matters. In fact, they go to a dealership, probably for a brand t…

> Second, they like big "American" cars like pickup trucks and huge SUVs

Do they genuinely like them, or do they just not know they could have it better?

Even the people that speak loudest against universal healthcare quickly turn to go fund me when life happens.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#99

Post by neogodless »

lelanthran wrote: post #35
usernametaken29 wrote: post #20

If your theory is true we might see an era where supply vastly exceeds demand and car manufacturers will need to offset brand new vehicles to keep cash flow going. Sounds great to me, sign me up for 20$k brand new Ford when the time’s ready.

> If your theory is true we might see an era where supply vastly exceeds demand and car manufacturers will need to offset brand new vehicles to keep cash flow going. Sounds great to me, sign me up for 20$k brand new Ford when the time’s ready. The car manufacturers could have staved this off - they keep developing new models with little to no marginal improvement. Once we got seatbelts, airbags and similar in cars, t…

> literally no reason for a new model to drop

You're making an extremely bold hypothesis that your internet armchair knowledge about what investment auto manufacturers make in research, design, and marketing to remain competitive in the marketplace of car sales easily exceeds what auto manufacturers know about that same topic.

You would need some strong supporting evidence to convince people of that. One would be any 6+ year old model of vehicles that sells as well as or better than any 5 year old or newer model of vehicles, even if it only competes on price. Can you name such a model? What share of the U.S. car sales goes to that model? What is their profit margin, and how to does it compare to models that Toyota sells?

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#100

Post by Arainach »

usernametaken29 wrote: post #20

If your theory is true we might see an era where supply vastly exceeds demand and car manufacturers will need to offset brand new vehicles to keep cash flow going. Sounds great to me, sign me up for 20$k brand new Ford when the time’s ready.

$20k with $250 in subscriptions each month to keep your seats, mirrors, and radio working...
Post reply on HN