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I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

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Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#221

Post by Planktonne »

drcode wrote: post #46
rocmcd wrote: post #38

It's hard to read Gwern's accompanying article without seeing this for what it is, which is a kind of mania. I'm sure he means well and is genuine in his aspirations, but what's outlined for GA is framing LLM's as quasi-gods, which they absolutely are not. I wish him the best, and look forward to being proven wrong.

An LLM just solved 10 top tier math problems this week. It seems very likely that in 6 months they will solve 100 top tier math problems, maybe 1 millenium math problem, maybe 10 top tier physics problems, etc. It's only going to get crazier.

How many maths problems does one have to solve before becoming god?

Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#222

Post by Planktonne »

petesergeant wrote: post #188
rocmcd wrote: post #38

It's hard to read Gwern's accompanying article without seeing this for what it is, which is a kind of mania. I'm sure he means well and is genuine in his aspirations, but what's outlined for GA is framing LLM's as quasi-gods, which they absolutely are not. I wish him the best, and look forward to being proven wrong.

> is framing LLM's as quasi-gods, which they absolutely are not Always such certainty in these dismissals. And whenever you dig in, it always seems to be "well my super-human coding assistant made this dumb mistake!", along with a heavy dose of https://mastodon.social/@falseknees/116477394235883790 I don't think anyone who has spent any time around me would describe me as having anything but a pretty clear-eyed view…

> I don't think anyone who has spent any time around me would describe me as having anything but a pretty clear-eyed view of the current abilities of LLMs

You are literally arguing that LLMs are quasi-gods in the same comment you claim a 'clear-eyed view' of current LLMs.

Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#223

Post by Planktonne »

neuroticnews25 wrote: post #194
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #40

LLM psychosis claims another victim... A reminder for anyone reading this: talk to people. Real humans[1]. They will remind you there's more to life than what ChatGPT can offer you. They might even remind you, for all their stupidity and flaws, what intelligence looks like as compared to a program that predicts tokens. Forums like these always get philosophical in high-minded discussions about intelligence, but there…

Talking to LLMs or reading books is much more effective in updating my priors. Talking to people is mostly ego, signaling, misunderstandings and axiological differences.

Please take this as a sincere comment, rather than an attack: what you're describing is much more likely to be a problem you need to work on, than an issue with humanity as a whole.

Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#224

Post by nkrisc »

frozenseven wrote: post #135
nkrisc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine an LLM which actually sounded like you, and to an extent, thought like you. How much would you pay to have access to a smarter version of yourself? I find the idea dehumanizing and revolting. The notion of then selling it is the spoiled cream on top.

After reading some of the outraged comments here, I'm even more excited.

I’m not surprised, that’s exactly the kind of person who would want this kind of technology.

Remember, society as a whole will decide what's acceptable, there are no objective, natural laws that decide that. My gut feeling is that this is starting to cut close to what most people will find objectionable.

Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#225

Post by neuroticnews25 »

Planktonne wrote: post #223
neuroticnews25 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking to LLMs or reading books is much more effective in updating my priors. Talking to people is mostly ego, signaling, misunderstandings and axiological differences.

Please take this as a sincere comment, rather than an attack: what you're describing is much more likely to be a problem you need to work on, than an issue with humanity as a whole.

I didn't mean to imply there's an issue with humanity, just that talking to people is less effective, though maybe more fun.

Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#226

Post by Funes- »

>Powerful LLMs will be deployed at global scale in the next few years, and will dominate the Internet, and increasingly, ordinary life.

This kind of judgements or predictions trying to pass as imminent and unavoidable truths about the future are disgusting. They always feel like a means of propping up a certain status quo or ideology that favors the business of the people behind these foreboding statements.

Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#227

Post by neonnoodle »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #172
Barrin92 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>An LLM just solved 10 top tier math problems this week and 30 years ago a computer beat Gary Kasparov, if you'd listened to Hans Moravec you wouldn't be surprised that the first thing that gets automated is intellectual domain expertise. Things are going to get crazy when it can figure out how to walk into a random house a and brew a cup of coffee, not do math

When we've done both we will have fully automated Erdős.

regular LLM use makes people sound like they’re on meth so we must be getting close!

Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#228

Post by edot »

_zoltan_ wrote: post #125
edot wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Math is verifiable. LLMs will continue to make strides in such search spaces where all they need to do is try->verify->repeat. You can't train an LLM on how to end the war in Iran or Ukraine, nor how to solve hunger, nor climate change, etc. Real issues. And LLMs still suck at art and writing.

If you think all they need to do is "just that" (try, verify, repeat as you say) then I think you're very, very mistaken. There is no way for the LLM to bruteforce the search space any better than a human. What it can do better, tho, is to make connections between seemingly (for us) unconnected notions and join them, then verify if that's right. Your view is not only wrong but also condescending in this day and age.

That’s literally how AlphaEvolve works. And presumably how OpenAI’s research loop works if they’d ever publish it.

They put an LLM in a loop, with a reward function, and keep trying to get a higher score. The reward function for AlphaEvolve is “did this code get a better score or faster”, for math research it’s “did it write a LEAN proof”.

I’m open to hearing that I’m wrong but I don’t think I am. I agree that LLMs make connections that humans wouldn’t, but eventually you need to verify those because otherwise the connection it made may as well be a lie unless proven otherwise.

Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#229

Post by frozenseven »

Planktonne wrote: post #220
frozenseven wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading some of the outraged comments here, I'm even more excited.

I do think it's significant that the supporters of this kind of technology seem to be unusually spiteful. This doesn't happen with all tech; people who like VR don't like it because they want to hurt others, for example. But consistently, whenever AI is discussed, it becomes clear that some people support it just out of malevolence.

>unusually spiteful

>hurt others

>malevolence

The irony here, of course, is that you are casually insulting me for being interested in this tech in the first place and refusing to apologize or back down. Like how the other guy needed to chime in with "dehumanizing and revolting", even though nobody is forcing him to use any of this.

Re: I am retiring from fulltime writing (& pseudonymity) to launch Guardian Angel

#230

Post by Planktonne »

frozenseven wrote: post #229
Planktonne wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think it's significant that the supporters of this kind of technology seem to be unusually spiteful. This doesn't happen with all tech; people who like VR don't like it because they want to hurt others, for example. But consistently, whenever AI is discussed, it becomes clear that some people support it just out of malevolence.

>unusually spiteful >hurt others >malevolence The irony here, of course, is that you are casually insulting me for being interested in this tech in the first place and refusing to apologize or back down. Like how the other guy needed to chime in with "dehumanizing and revolting", even though nobody is forcing him to use any of this.

Nonsense. You were very clear.

I wouldn't have any problem with you being interested in this tech if it wasn't driven by spite. Lots of people manage this.

But you said

> After reading some of the outraged comments here, I'm even more excited.

The reason you gave for excitement was the upset it causes others. There are people who like AI who aren't driven by malevolence, but you're not one of them.

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