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Waymo in Dallas

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Re: Waymo in Dallas

#531

Post by galangalalgol »

Teever wrote: post #513
missedthecue wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a municipal finance perspective, most Dallas-Fort Worth suburban municipalities are far and away outperforming urban Dallas (the City of Dallas proper). That's not opinion, you can see the finances as they are all public. Ask the LLM of your choice to make research easy. I'm not really sure where people get this idea that suburbs are drowning in liabilities where dense american urban centers are overflowing with…

I think you're sort of missing my point. After decades of ignored negative externalities from unchecked suburban growth and car-culture are coming to an end. As populations decline and temperatures increase places like Dallas and the wealthy suburbs around it that you mention will have less and less relevance. There isn't going to be a future where the citizens of suburban Dallas are enjoying Starbucks coffee in sing…

The climate part is certainly an issue for dfw, but the superiority of dense urban areas from a financial or ecological standpoint isn't backed by data. Buses were better for fuel efficiency, but now the bus and robotaxi are both ev, the robotaxi has a smaller impact ecologically due to microplastics scaling with axle weight ^4 and financially because road wear scales with axle weight ^3. If buses and trash trucks didn't drive on streets they would last virtually forever the way they are built now. While the glorious excesses of the last 75yrs are definitely going away, the suburbs may very well not. Urban cores might instead rot in infrastructure until only the highways between them with low density adjacent settlements remain.

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#532

Post by xnx »

yreg wrote: post #492
missedthecue wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because you can't fill the buses! 1. Cul-de-sacs and surburbia lack through-streets. So it forces heavy long buses to navigate winding narrow loops. This makes your routing complex and slow. 2. When commuters travel suburb-to-suburb instead of hub-and-spoke downtown, origin-destination pairs are too scattered to support fixed routes with meaningful frequency. 3. Low passenger volume per mile makes fixed-route bus ope…

1. I promise you that a bus can get through winding narrow loops just fine. All medieval old towns are like that. 2. You either create loops or hubs where people transfer. The hub can be just a regular bus stop where lines meet. 3. Looking up the density of Dallas suburbs I can tell you that buses can work well in far less dense places. 4. The math doesn't add up, if you can get somewhere by car in 20 - 30mins drivin…

> I've been to places where the public transport was operated by microvans with as low as 12 seats.

Right-sizing the vehicle is smart. Why not also allow 4 person buses that run on demand to and from any point?

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#533

Post by wj »

Teever wrote: post #513
missedthecue wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a municipal finance perspective, most Dallas-Fort Worth suburban municipalities are far and away outperforming urban Dallas (the City of Dallas proper). That's not opinion, you can see the finances as they are all public. Ask the LLM of your choice to make research easy. I'm not really sure where people get this idea that suburbs are drowning in liabilities where dense american urban centers are overflowing with…

I think you're sort of missing my point. After decades of ignored negative externalities from unchecked suburban growth and car-culture are coming to an end. As populations decline and temperatures increase places like Dallas and the wealthy suburbs around it that you mention will have less and less relevance. There isn't going to be a future where the citizens of suburban Dallas are enjoying Starbucks coffee in sing…

What is the timeline you expect for this?

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#534

Post by cucumber3732842 »

missedthecue wrote: post #441
Grombobulous wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect to you as a person and your ideas presented, this is one of the most car-brained posts I've ever read. > it's way more efficient than building $100 billion in transit that will take 200 years to build. What is efficient about a $13 highway widening project in Houston or the $24 billion (inflation-adjusted) and 15 years it cost to bury a highway in Boston? (It's not even much of a new highway, it's just u…

the simple fact of the matter is the Waymo is a better public transport solution for Dallas than the bus. The bus doesn't work very well in endless cul-de-sac suburbia, and that's what the Dallas/Fort Worth area (and indeed most of America) is. Like, you have to understand that most of Dallas isn't even commuting into downtown Dallas every day to work. They are just commuting to other suburbs and then back to their s…

> (and indeed most of America)

Cookie cutter developments where each street is a culdesac or horseshoe with it's own HOA is the only economically sane way to any serious volume of detached single or multi unit detached housing development thanks to federal environmental regulation.

Who screeches bloody murder at even the mere hint of making some adjustments there? Why nearly the same people who complain about the current copypasta suburban sprawl paradigm of course.

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#535

Post by wwalexander »

km3r wrote: post #481
wwalexander wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What “anti-science slopulism” are you referring to? And what does corporate rollout strategy have to do with science?

Anti nuclear, anti AI, pro-rent control, anti-self driving tech, anti-automation

What does rent control have to do with corporate rollout strategy?

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#537

Post by cucumber3732842 »

missedthecue wrote: post #475
Teever wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the public transport solution involved policies like taxing the existing suburbs in a way that ensures a break-even on infrastructure upkeep and operating costs so that the people who live in them aren't unfairly pushing costs onto other people in society? We could go a step further and tax automobiles in such a way that they covers the negative externalizes that their use results in so that again, the users…

From a municipal finance perspective, most Dallas-Fort Worth suburban municipalities are far and away outperforming urban Dallas (the City of Dallas proper). That's not opinion, you can see the finances as they are all public. Ask the LLM of your choice to make research easy. I'm not really sure where people get this idea that suburbs are drowning in liabilities where dense american urban centers are overflowing with…

>I'm not really sure where people get this idea that suburbs are drowning in liabilities

Because from the 70s onward the former industrial northeast and miswest was actively de-urbanized and suburbanized with environmental and zoning law (don't blame this all on the locals, a lot of this rolls downhill from the states). This obviously coincided with de-industrialization. So basically all these former market and mill towns basically wound up underwater because they not only kicked out their economy but wound up in a situation where every stupid sidewalk repaving costs a bajillion bucks because pursuant to state law whatever it needs to be brought up to code which means some BS green space buffer, etc, etc.

Source: Live in one.

At the end of the day you're basically right it's a lie when it comes to some random Dallas suburb.

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#538

Post by master-lincoln »

fishfasell wrote: post #430
m_a_g wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God, I love how Americans will do anything but build public transport

Dallas needs public transit badly too. It's the least walkable city I've ever been too.

How do you get to and off stations if it's not walkable? Isn't walk-ability a requirement for successful public transport?

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#539

Post by master-lincoln »

servo_sausage wrote: post #437
danans wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That car can be full time serving 4-10 units daily? A bus could serve 40-100 daily. The infrastructure already exists - the same as for cars. It's pretty low cost also - especially electric buses that have lower maintenance costs. The problem is that you have to ride with other people.

As infrastructure, busses don't make sense if you assume self driving EVs are going to be widespread. Trying to keep using something that is comprised by fixed routes, schedules, and stops makes n little sense.

Disagree because of the amount of space wasted for parking

Re: Waymo in Dallas

#540

Post by servo_sausage »

master-lincoln wrote: post #539
servo_sausage wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As infrastructure, busses don't make sense if you assume self driving EVs are going to be widespread. Trying to keep using something that is comprised by fixed routes, schedules, and stops makes n little sense.

Disagree because of the amount of space wasted for parking

What? Autonomous cars can park wherever...
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