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There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

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Re: There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

#421

Post by King-Aaron »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #358
mrloopex wrote: post #110

Born in 1968 I missed “duck and cover” but rode the wave of Reagan brinkmanship with my skater friends until 1990, watching all the broadcast TV PSAs and songs and art about nuclear war. It was real. It pervaded daily life: the notion that two old white men were having a pissing contest with every human as disposable bargaining chips. And as always, 25% of the US population cheered for purification of the planet beca…

"... two old white men were having a pissing contest ..." This is the big mistake that so many people make: assuming that these folks are behaving irrationally, or somehow focused on something other than what is best for humanity or their own country. The unfortunate truth is that these people are actually behaving rationally, and doing what they believe is in the best interest of their own country or even society at…

The current leadership doesn't appear to have many rational actors remaining.

Re: There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

#422

Post by ButlerianJihad »

ButlerianJihad wrote: post #271
CTDOCodebases wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the maze thing is a strategy that mall operators use to trap shoppers in them and encourage them to spend more.

I spent years of my childhood in Horton Plaza, as well as Seaport Village, Mission Valley Center, and Fashion Valley. I would say that we never felt “trapped” by Horton’s layout. There were plenty of clearly-marked exits around the perimeter. But the maze features were remarkable and unique for us. There were bridge walkways with an incline of half a level. There were asymmetrical stairways. The perimeter of stores w…

Horton Plaza after Grand Opening - News 8 Throwback

https://youtu.be/YAbByjzwr9U?si=IUEvJKvdkRKm86b0

Horton Plaza Grand Opening - NBC 7 San Diego (KNSD channel 39)

https://youtu.be/thG4scWOr1E?si=9Nngt34VtKf13AdY

Oh, I was wrong about the "no anchor stores" comment -- as Nordstrom can be seen in this video. And I do recall walking through one, as the department stores had a presence on nearly every level of the mall, and normal escalators!

Re: There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

#423

Post by gadders »

billiam wrote: post #259
paulorlando wrote: post #201

It seems quaint now, but it’s astonishing how much the fear of war (especially nuclear annihilation) affected mid-century fiction. In addition to "There Will Come Soft Rains" we have short stories like Stephen Vincent Benét’s "By the Waters of Babylon." In that story, society has been bombed back to the stone age. Even religion is a stone age recreation. Something like hot and cold running water seems like it must co…

Quaint? We are the closest we've ever been to nuclear annihilation, according to the experts: https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/timeline/

"Experts". It's more a Trump Derangement System meter at this point.

Re: There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

#425

Post by varjag »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #357
paulorlando wrote: post #201

It seems quaint now, but it’s astonishing how much the fear of war (especially nuclear annihilation) affected mid-century fiction. In addition to "There Will Come Soft Rains" we have short stories like Stephen Vincent Benét’s "By the Waters of Babylon." In that story, society has been bombed back to the stone age. Even religion is a stone age recreation. Something like hot and cold running water seems like it must co…

> " It seems quaint now, but it’s astonishing how much the fear of war (especially nuclear annihilation) affected mid-century fiction. " Quite the reverse. That people say that the fear of war (nuclear or not) is "quaint" means that the wealthy and privileged first world has forgotten about war and that's not a normal state of affairs. The 18th and 19th centuries were wracked by war after war between major powers, cu…

The latter half of the 19th/early 20th century (between Franco-Prussian war and WW1) was comparatively peaceful, not unlike the 1990s-2000s. It was called belle epoque for a reason.

Re: There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

#426

Post by ath3nd »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #390
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever the "tens of millions killed by communism" number gets trotted out, it's invariably considering everybody who died due to lack of assigned resources under communism. Which is fine, but it means you need to go over to the west and count up all the people who died of preventable means (not to mention making per-capita adjustments) as well for a fair point of comparison. Every person who died of preventable ill…

> it's invariably considering everybody who died due to lack of assigned resources under communism You mean, those who were forcibly starved by their government, those who were forcibly murdered and displaced by their government, and those who were put into forced labor "re-education" work camps by their government. I'm not talking about the baseline of human problems and suffering that is everywhere -- that's not co…

[dead]

Re: There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

#427

Post by altmanaltman »

sorokod wrote: post #312
openasocket wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the expiration of New Start earlier this year, there are no nuclear arms control agreements in effect between the US and Russia, which hasn’t been the case since the 1960s. Russia, China, and the US are all actively modernizing and developing new nuclear capabilities. China has been greatly expanding their nuclear arsenal, building hundreds of new silos. North Korea has an expansive set of tactical and strategic…

In addition, usage of tactical nuclear weapons comes up again and again from Russian sources, driven by the situation in the Ukraine war.

That usually comes up as a detterance which is basically what nukes are at this point. Even Russia is not stupid enough to lob a nuke as an offensive strategy, it is suicide still.

Re: There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

#428

Post by microtonal »

paulorlando wrote: post #331
billiam wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quaint? We are the closest we've ever been to nuclear annihilation, according to the experts: https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/timeline/

Yes, it's not part of the daily fear and considerations people take anymore. No more nuclear duck and cover drills; no more fallout shelters scattered around cities. Look at the history of that clock and tell me if you think it's a useful timepiece. Maybe this is a bit, but just a bit, better (though backward looking): https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=the+bomb%2Cnuc...

No more nuclear duck and cover drills; no more fallout shelters scattered around cities.

With modern hydrogen bombs, they are largely a farce anyway. Still, we are only one misinterpreted event away from nuclear escalation. The fact that Russia hasn't used a tactical nuke against Ukraine yet is a miracle and largely thanks to China:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2026/07/11/asia-pacific/ch...

I think under Biden, there were two safeguards: China + Biden threatening to sink the black sea fleet in retaliation. But yeah, Trump's primary international strategy is: whatever lines 'me and my bro's pockets'. If anything, his policies have been a message to many countries that it's probably better to get your own nukes in case the US has you in their crosshairs.

Re: There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

#429

Post by microtonal »

altmanaltman wrote: post #427
sorokod wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition, usage of tactical nuclear weapons comes up again and again from Russian sources, driven by the situation in the Ukraine war.

That usually comes up as a detterance which is basically what nukes are at this point. Even Russia is not stupid enough to lob a nuke as an offensive strategy, it is suicide still.

There is increasing pressure from inside the regime for Putin to do so:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2026/07/11/asia-pacific/ch...

What if they did it? They would be a paria politically, but countries would still buy their oil/gas because they need it and it's cheap, nobody would start nuking Russia over Ukraine [1], and using tactical nukes against nations that don't have them would become much more acceptable.

It is kind of telling that China has to be the ones reigning them in, which is a good sign that they are replacing the US as the world's superpower, which also comes with maintaining some stability in important markets, erm, countries.

Aside from that our best hope is that the functional Russian arsenal is much smaller than Russian claims due to the lack of maintenance, corruption, etc.

[1] Trump would just have a phone call with Putin and then parrot whatever narrative the Kremlin has. For France and UK, nukes are purely for self-protection, so they would only trigger a counter-attack if Russian nukes appear to be coming towards them (so it's probably better for Russia to avoid The Netherlands and Belgium too).

Re: There Will Come Soft Rains (1950) [pdf]

#430

Post by keybored »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #357
paulorlando wrote: post #201

It seems quaint now, but it’s astonishing how much the fear of war (especially nuclear annihilation) affected mid-century fiction. In addition to "There Will Come Soft Rains" we have short stories like Stephen Vincent Benét’s "By the Waters of Babylon." In that story, society has been bombed back to the stone age. Even religion is a stone age recreation. Something like hot and cold running water seems like it must co…

> " It seems quaint now, but it’s astonishing how much the fear of war (especially nuclear annihilation) affected mid-century fiction. " Quite the reverse. That people say that the fear of war (nuclear or not) is "quaint" means that the wealthy and privileged first world has forgotten about war and that's not a normal state of affairs. The 18th and 19th centuries were wracked by war after war between major powers, cu…

The privileged First World are supposed to profess their faith that constant war is normal and that we were lovingly watched over by our local super power and the threat of mutually assured destruction. You don’t have to remind us.
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