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New cars are getting 1.2cm longer and 0.5cm taller each year

transportenvironment.org

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Re: New cars are getting 1.2cm longer and 0.5cm taller each year

#71

Post by inigyou »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #68
TacticalCoder wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So probably shipping stuff in trucks doesn't cost enough, and SUVs/pickups should cost 5x for road tax what sedans do. Nope because the numbers you just posted exemplify what every knows: road cars don't even register on the radar compared to semi-trailers. The tax for "road damage" should be approximately zero for cars, any cars, and way more expensive for semis. But people who hate on cars don't want to hear the…

> But people who hate on cars don't want to hear the truth A tad heavy on the rhetoric, wouldn't you say?

Check their comment history. With showdead on. Normal talk interspersed with crazy political rants.

Re: New cars are getting 1.2cm longer and 0.5cm taller each year

#72

Post by avidiax »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #62
avidiax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> scale with weight Road damage scales with axle weight to the fourth power (w^4). So if a 500lbs motorcycle is the unit of damage, a 4,000 lbs sedan does 4,096 units of damage (4096x as much), a 6,000 lbs SUV/pickup does 20,736x, a 14,000 lbs delivery van does 614,000x, and the 80,000 lbs US federal limit 5 axle semi-trailer does 90,800,000x the damage of the motorcycle. So probably shipping stuff in trucks doesn't…

> So probably shipping stuff in trucks doesn't cost enough, and SUVs/pickups should cost 5x for road tax what sedans do. Nope because the numbers you just posted exemplify what every knows: road cars don't even register on the radar compared to semi-trailers. The tax for "road damage" should be approximately zero for cars, any cars, and way more expensive for semis. But people who hate on cars don't want to hear the…

It's a bit more complicated than that.

There are fixed or per-vehicle costs:

* signage, lighting, snow removal, etc.

* weather-related wear and tear from freeze/thaw, thermal expansion, etc.

* capacity (more lanes needed, driven by passenger vehicles, not trucks)

So yeah, semi's should probably be paying $100k/year in road tax based on wear, but that doesn't meant that your car's road tax should be $1/year.

There's also a great argument that all the suburbs are not paying enough in property taxes. Those paved roads have high costs to maintain over time, and service just the traffic to/from some large houses. Some have gone so far as to call suburbia a scam, on the basis that it has to perpetually grow to pay for maintenance.

Re: New cars are getting 1.2cm longer and 0.5cm taller each year

#74

Post by fakedang »

flir wrote: post #66
trgn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

weight is the easiest measure. wear&tear on road, mpg, damage in accident all scale with weight

Weight and number of miles travelled aren't correlated though. If you go with a fuel tax (more difficult with EVs but not impossible) you get fuel efficiency, weight and miles travelled in one neat bundle.

If you want to encourage EV use and make it the mainstream majority, the last thing you need is to put further obstacles to its use such as an EV miles tax.

Re: New cars are getting 1.2cm longer and 0.5cm taller each year

#75

Post by mulderc »

Zambyte wrote: post #58
mulderc wrote: post #9

Cars have become absurd. We have an older car, and I occasionally look at what we could replace it with, and everything is huge and expensive. Literally, the only car I have been interested in is from BYD and will never be available in my country.

Consider something other than a car. Last year I purchased an electric scooter to complement my car. I ran into mechanical trouble with my car, and it wasn't worth repairing. Instead of replacing it with another car, I have ended up complementing the shortcomings of the electric scooter with an acoustic bicycle. In particular, the bike is better for carrying cargo (I can put things on the bike or even in a trailer in…

We already barely drive and the car is largely just for groceries and other shopping. We can almost get away without having a car but it was be a bit frustrating and neither of us enjoy biking.

Re: New cars are getting 1.2cm longer and 0.5cm taller each year

#76

Post by fakedang »

wolvoleo wrote: post #46

And this is in EU, not even America where cars have always been tanks. I do think we will see fewer on the road though. In my city more and more streets are being pedestrianised. And unlimited public transport is only 24€ and amazing quality. Most of the people who still drive are rich foreigners that don't know any better. And also still view them as a status symbol. Outside cities public transport isn't great thoug…

A rising trend in the EU has been new buyers going for SUVs. People, especially those with families, have been buying them as sort of an insurance against accidents. You're far less likely to die in an SUV than in a sedan. Although that does mean that you become a much bigger risk for those who drive sedans.

Re: New cars are getting 1.2cm longer and 0.5cm taller each year

#77

Post by mulderc »

comradesmith wrote: post #51
mulderc wrote: post #9

Cars have become absurd. We have an older car, and I occasionally look at what we could replace it with, and everything is huge and expensive. Literally, the only car I have been interested in is from BYD and will never be available in my country.

Get a Honda Civic Type R

That is around $50k, no way would I ever spend that much on a car.

Re: New cars are getting 1.2cm longer and 0.5cm taller each year

#79

Post by antisthenes »

gravypod wrote: post #57
mulderc wrote: post #9

Cars have become absurd. We have an older car, and I occasionally look at what we could replace it with, and everything is huge and expensive. Literally, the only car I have been interested in is from BYD and will never be available in my country.

Mitsubishi just discontinued the car line that I drive [0]. The Mirage was great. I can drive from NYC to Boston on ~10 gallon. The only downsides were: No arm wrest, no sunglasses holder, and the media console won't turn on if you leave the car in the hot sun for a while. I'm hoping to make my next car an electric car but all of the US ones are massive. [0] - https://www.mitsubishicars.com/mirage-history

> I can drive from NYC to Boston on ~10 gallon.

NYC to Boston is only ~220 miles. You can drive literally any car there for 10 gallons.

Or did you mean there and back?

Re: New cars are getting 1.2cm longer and 0.5cm taller each year

#80

Post by gravypod »

antisthenes wrote: post #79
gravypod wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mitsubishi just discontinued the car line that I drive [0]. The Mirage was great. I can drive from NYC to Boston on ~10 gallon. The only downsides were: No arm wrest, no sunglasses holder, and the media console won't turn on if you leave the car in the hot sun for a while. I'm hoping to make my next car an electric car but all of the US ones are massive. [0] - https://www.mitsubishicars.com/mirage-history

> I can drive from NYC to Boston on ~10 gallon. NYC to Boston is only ~220 miles. You can drive literally any car there for 10 gallons. Or did you mean there and back?

I have taken a few cars on that drive. Adding in traffic, I usually have to fill up at the gas station just outside of Boston that has the burger king in it. In my Mirage can get me to Boston, drive around a bit, and usually just need to fill up on my way back.
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