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Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

blog.rootsofprogress.org

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Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#61

Post by nerdsniper »

inigyou wrote: post #51
nerdsniper wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 rotors is also a much more difficult “controls” problem. Helicopters actually glide reasonably well if their engine cuts off. They’re not super insanely unstable. Quadcopters are basically obligate fly-by-wire vehicles which necessitate at least pneumatic PID controllers if not computer chips to fly. You can make a helicopter work reasonably well a lot earlier in a pre-computer “tech tree” than you can a quadcopter…

A helicopter with a broken engine glides well enough to avoid instantly killing everyone on board if the pilot knows what he's doing. I wouldn't call it "reasonably well". Here you go - drops slightly slower than a brick. The pilot has to speed up the descent on purpose so that he can use that stored energy to slow it down just before the crash, thus converting the crash into merely a hard landing. https://youtu.be/0…

That was a shockingly controlled landing for an unpowered vehicle. Very impressive!

> Here you go - drops slightly slower than a brick.

The glide ratio of a brick, even if it is initially traveling at 80 KIAS is ... 0:1. This is the same glide ratio that an unpowered quadcopter would have. Bell 206B, Robinson R44, and R22 all list their unpowered autorotation glide ratios at 4:1 - that is a mathematically infinite multiplier of performance vs. a brick.

https://robinsonstrapistorprod.blob.core.windows.net/uploads...

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#64

Post by t0mpr1c3 »

Melatonic wrote: post #54
Theodores wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to burst your bubble, but... The Wright Brothers started in a bicycle workshop, as did practically every auto maker, in Europe, in the early days. The bicycle workshop was the cradle for many things. The Wright Brothers were not good for progress. Their game was patents. They were rent seekers, as in 'patent trolls', not innovators. This is why so much early aviation switched to Europe. With the bicycle the Wr…

Besides those early French helicopter things what major early aviation innovations were unique to Europe ?

The Montgolfier brothers preceded the Wright brothers in human flight by 100 years. Cayley had essentially already invented the modern aeroplane by 1799, and was flying gliders by 1804. Trevithick patented the screw propeller in 1815 (although the concept was known in Antiquity). Otto invented the internal combustion engine necessary to power it in 1876.

Still, plenty of people were skeptical that powered heavier-than-air flight could be achieved. The Wright brothers deserve the credit for putting all the pieces together, getting the controls to work, and managing not to kill themselves like countless other early aviators. It probably helped that they were from Ohio which is flat.

Their bicycle shop was successful, and the brothers used both profits and spare parts in service of their prototype: the controls involved bicycle spokes, and steering used a handlebar. They were decent engineers. I believe they created their combustion engine using not much more than hand tools and a lathe.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#66

Post by ferfumarma »

asdfsa32 wrote: post #13
avidiax wrote: post #4

I think the author is missing another major factor: the early bicycle doesn't solve any problem satisfactorily. A velocipede at best saves you a bit of energy going flat or downhill, with relatively little increase in speed, with a relatively high capital expense. Compared with walking and horses, it doesn't help much. You have to get all the way to the safety bicycle (with pneumatic tires) before you have something…

There is even a bigger factor, the environment, Bicycles are only as good as the roads you're riding them on. Off-road bicycle is a far more sophisticated and modern invention that builds on massive supply chain and production capabilities to be produced competitively compared to price of horse of yester-years.

The issue of roads is addressed in the article.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#67

Post by Theodores »

benj111 wrote: post #53
Theodores wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carlton Reid, the guy who started the trade website BikeBiz, is my source for this, and his is a name to look out for, his writing is consistently good and his advocacy based on a knowledge of history. I am just paraphrasing what I have learned from his telling of the early days of the CTC (Cycle Touring Club). There were many cycle touring clubs, and this was how men met women without their mothers being around! The…

>Only with 21st century goggles on does your idea of induced vehicular traffic make sense I live between Manchester and Bradford. 2 towns that didn't exist before the industrial revolution. 2 entire cities built, basically because of that induced demand. In fact I grew up next to probably what was the major road between the 2 judging by the number of ex inns. Yes. You will get less traffic going Manchester Bradford o…

Wool thief!

That industry was ours, in Gloucestershire and in Devon. All that red cloth that native peoples the world over wanted, and clothed every soldier, that was our broad cloth.

You meanies undercut us and put us out of business. We had teasels and Fuller's Earth, you had machines (and brains).

Let's be honest, that was no 'heavy haulage'. That cloth that took whole families months to make did not need an articulated lorry convoy to take it away, to be sold by the East India Company.

In Gloucestershire we had pack horses to collect the woollen goodies, which would not be finished cloth from villagers, the people in London had the cloth making sewn up, before then it was in Flanders.

The public house was where it all happened, the merchant brought goods from outside and sold any old rubbish for a huge mark up to a captive audience.

Journey times were huge for relatively short distances, when you see the old roads and how they remorselessly go over steep hills, you can see why, it is very much like hill climbing, where 20 miles a day is good going with a camping rucksack, but imagine massive wool sacks and some horse. 4 mph, is that optimistic? I should say so. Today, with mountain bike, a lot of pushing is involved, with descents being technical.

Thinking of the inns and pubs that used to be inns, there are quite a few in small villages that make sense at pack horse speed, but no sense in today's world, blazing past at 70 mph, latte in cup holder, burger on seat, A/C on full blast, Spotify playlist also on full blast, sat-nav telling you about the hazards ahead, on your way for some clothes shopping in the big city that is another dozen miles up the road, to be there in fifteen minutes, in a car that is five thousand miles away from needing to be looked at under the bonnet, texting whilst driving.

That inn might have had a heyday when everyone stopped by, to get hay, beer, a bed, advice from fellow travellers coming the other way regarding the road ahead, entertainment, specialist leather services, blacksmith services, a small shop, parlour games, female company, live music, the warmth of a fire and much else.

Anyway, just to explain your local history, you guys STOLE our trade. This is why you went from nothing to mills, bypassing aeons of cottage industry. A few clearances later, you have got your labour force.

Instructions to readers: mod parent down as he shows no remorse for his ancestors stealing the wool trade from the hard working people of Gloucestershire and Devon!

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#68

Post by benj111 »

Theodores wrote: post #67
benj111 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Only with 21st century goggles on does your idea of induced vehicular traffic make sense I live between Manchester and Bradford. 2 towns that didn't exist before the industrial revolution. 2 entire cities built, basically because of that induced demand. In fact I grew up next to probably what was the major road between the 2 judging by the number of ex inns. Yes. You will get less traffic going Manchester Bradford o…

Wool thief! That industry was ours, in Gloucestershire and in Devon. All that red cloth that native peoples the world over wanted, and clothed every soldier, that was our broad cloth. You meanies undercut us and put us out of business. We had teasels and Fuller's Earth, you had machines (and brains). Let's be honest, that was no 'heavy haulage'. That cloth that took whole families months to make did not need an artic…

I grew up in a 250 year old weavers cottage.

We were weaving wool before the industrial revolution.

Yes we probably did dominate during the revolution.

Feel free to add your own local history, but around here the weavers went from piece work at home to the factories, probably in the same village. The mill is more productive, ergo more going in and out of the village, ergo more traffic. Rince and repeat for just about every tiny village around here.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#69

Post by fulafel »

d_silin wrote: post #11

High-quality (higher carbon) steel required for frame, chain and gears was not abundant enough and cheap enough until late XIX century.

There's a lot of wooden bike frame designs that apparently work fine, the frame is one of the easier places to replace steel in.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#70

Post by ButlerianJihad »

nerdsniper wrote: post #61
inigyou wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A helicopter with a broken engine glides well enough to avoid instantly killing everyone on board if the pilot knows what he's doing. I wouldn't call it "reasonably well". Here you go - drops slightly slower than a brick. The pilot has to speed up the descent on purpose so that he can use that stored energy to slow it down just before the crash, thus converting the crash into merely a hard landing. https://youtu.be/0…

That was a shockingly controlled landing for an unpowered vehicle. Very impressive! > Here you go - drops slightly slower than a brick. The glide ratio of a brick, even if it is initially traveling at 80 KIAS is ... 0:1. This is the same glide ratio that an unpowered quadcopter would have. Bell 206B, Robinson R44, and R22 all list their unpowered autorotation glide ratios at 4:1 - that is a mathematically infinite mu…

The Space Shuttle orbiter was nicknamed “Flying Brick” in its landing configuration by the astronauts and test pilots, because even for a glider, it had the worst maneuverability they had ever experienced, not to mention the highest approach velocity and catastrophic failure modes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Training_Aircraft

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