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Apple is getting this wrong

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Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#281

Post by Melatonic »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #277

OpenAI quotes from iMessage communications between Liu and Peng But Apple's motion states that their communications occurred "through the Line messenger app to avoid detection by Apple" https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.47...

Saw that - what the hell is "Line" messenger?

It also does specifically state that they use that to avoid detection (and only between those two people) so they could have been using multiple communication mediums.

That document has a lot of more interesting stuff, however. They also talk about an "apple proprietary metal finishing process" made by a supplier - could they have tried to steal Liquid Metal?

edit: They also state this below which may have some more specifics on what technology is in question:

"Documents sufficient to show hardware development at OpenAI involving (1) bat- tery technology, including can size, flange specifications, and manufacturing toler- ances; (2) the metal finishing process, including surface preparation and anodization"

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#282

Post by sufficientsoup »

Melatonic wrote: post #281
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #277

OpenAI quotes from iMessage communications between Liu and Peng But Apple's motion states that their communications occurred "through the Line messenger app to avoid detection by Apple" https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.47...

Saw that - what the hell is "Line" messenger? It also does specifically state that they use that to avoid detection (and only between those two people) so they could have been using multiple communication mediums. That document has a lot of more interesting stuff, however. They also talk about an "apple proprietary metal finishing process" made by a supplier - could they have tried to steal Liquid Metal? edit: They a…

It's a messenger app used in Japan and supposedly some other Asian countries (but I can only vouch for the former).

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#283

Post by keeda »

Lots of comments about how OpenAI is posting this informal response to a lawsuit on a company blog, but ehh, they've been doing this forever:

https://openai.com/index/the-truth-elon-left-out/

https://openai.com/index/openai-elon-musk/

https://openai.com/index/court-rejects-elon/

https://openai.com/elon-musk/

https://openai.com/index/response-to-nyt-data-demands/

https://openai.com/index/mental-health-litigation-approach/

(The Elon ones also have redacted screenshots as receipts.)

Indeed, they are litigating in the court of public opinion but let's not be naive to think that this is NOT what the other parties have also been doing.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#284

Post by ethbr1 »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #275
ethbr1 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This is a fucking legal case. It will be decided in the courtroom, not on the internet. Posting this is insane in the sense of "What will posting this possibly improve for OpenAI?" It's not going to change the court case. It's not going to impress professional adults. I guess... teenage reddit users with too much time on their hands who are fans of OpenAI? Though struggling to see how that demo would care about a…

OpenAI needs mass consumer buy in because a large part of their strategy is ad supported consumer use. Bad pr pushes those users away. A lot of people have teenage Reddit user mindset

I'm struggling to imagine someone like that who also cares about the minutiae of this case. Or heck, who even knows this case exists.

"OpenAI is so inept at system isolation that it accidentally hacked Huggingface" seems like a more important PR fire to put out. (Whether or not that breach was artificially manufactured)

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#285

Post by ethbr1 »

xg15 wrote: post #258
ethbr1 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This is a fucking legal case. It will be decided in the courtroom, not on the internet. Posting this is insane in the sense of "What will posting this possibly improve for OpenAI?" It's not going to change the court case. It's not going to impress professional adults. I guess... teenage reddit users with too much time on their hands who are fans of OpenAI? Though struggling to see how that demo would care about a…

Was reminded of SBF and his series of "I can explain everything" blog posts and interviews that somehow always made the thing worse...

Who would have thought that making someone with Asperger's CEO and giving them carte blanche to decide public statements was a bad idea?

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#286

Post by true_religion »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #143
bartman wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The timeline OpenAI wants to present looks like this to me: - Leaving employee (LE) needs a USB stick to copy data off their Mac to give to their Manager (MA) so someone at Apple still has access - After LE left, MA has access to LE Mac and iCloud to still access some data - At some point, LE asks MA to sign out off LE's iMessage account on that Mac as they suspect they'll get OpenAI-related messages soon and don't w…

Granted, Apple does do this weird thing where you're invited to use your personal iCloud (/Apple) account for work-related things (I suspect because they're just bad at supporting multiple accounts simultaneously). As part of the deal, your iCloud account gets upgraded during your employment. But they're also quite explicit and repeat the directive (including during the exit interview) about removing Apple files from…

If you remotely sign out, then when you delete the Apple IP files on the device, they aren't deleted off iCloud.

So it's plausible they wanted MA to check for and delete the files first, then sign out.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#287

Post by sandeepkd »

jtfrench wrote: post #85
sandeepkd wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple now tries to shift the blame to “residual access”, but they also don’t disclose that this is a common issue with Apple which is caused by them failing to properly manage system access when people leave. I have been fixated on this topic for some time. Most people behave in a regulated and lawful manner to be on safer side. They do not trespass into some ones home just cause the owner happened to leave the doo…

Hugging Face straight up asked for $100M in compute or something from OpenAI in response to the hack, if I remember correctly.

The messaging is what questionable here. This just opens up the door to commit hacks openly if other party has not secured properly. The definition of being a bad actor gets diluted here.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#288

Post by keeda »

Apple: OpenAI brazenly ignored our lawyer when he contacted them about this treacherous industrial espionage.

OpenAI: Sorry but your lawyer never really contacted us because he was incompetent and maybe even racist.

More entertaining than anything on TV /popcorn

Which makes me wonder, is it normal for giant corporations to very publicly lob lawsuits after just a couple of failed attempts to connect with the other party?

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#289

Post by sunnybeetroot »

Melatonic wrote: post #281
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #277

OpenAI quotes from iMessage communications between Liu and Peng But Apple's motion states that their communications occurred "through the Line messenger app to avoid detection by Apple" https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.47...

Saw that - what the hell is "Line" messenger? It also does specifically state that they use that to avoid detection (and only between those two people) so they could have been using multiple communication mediums. That document has a lot of more interesting stuff, however. They also talk about an "apple proprietary metal finishing process" made by a supplier - could they have tried to steal Liquid Metal? edit: They a…

Typing in “line messenger” on Google reveals it’s a Japanese messaging app.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#290

Post by Brian_K_White »

like_any_other wrote: post #172
Brian_K_White wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've built a society where we shit in private, not in the middle of the street.

You got your crude analogy backwards - it is the calculated, tactical PR-speak that is more like shitting up the public square, than the naive, honest-if-self-serving speech.

Did no one ever explain to you why you should wear nice clothes to a job interview? Or a wedding?

Not simply that you should, but why? Conducting onesself with decorum and professionalism in certain contexts is not about deception. It's about respecting other people, both individually/directly, and the communal space.

Even if you consciously don't care about or respect anyone else, "everyone else is wrong for not being be ok with my t-shirt and flipflops" it's still simply a self-own to present this image of someone who lacks such a minimum level of perception.

A business communique like this isn't a performance art piece where it's fine if most people react badly to it because the whole point was to make people think about their reactions or reflect on some aspect of life. It's not the time or place to make a chocolate Jesus.

It's just some infants in pants they don't know how to fill, not "refreshing honesty".

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