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That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

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Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#271

Post by inigyou »

makeitdouble wrote: post #117
JSR_FDED wrote: post #101

A friend told me about his AWS interview experience. It was a case study describing a potential client, their needs, limitations, etc - trying to be “realistic”. In the end it came down to either pressuring the client to embark on a complex cloud transition in time for a major sports event (that was a make or break event for the customer) or, as my friend recommended, start with a PoC but do the risky transition afte…

> He didn’t get the job because even though the technical attributes were all good, he should have pressured the customer. I'd say he didn't get the job because they would have asked him to pressure customers day in day out, he would refuse, never get promoted and be otherwise miserable in an aggressive culture. IMHO he shouldn't change his answer to please the interviewer, the process is working as intended and I'd…

The only goal of an interview for the interviewee is to get as much money as possible. If they're offering really good money, you need to pass whatever obstacles they have. If they're not, why are you there?

Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#272

Post by inigyou »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #255
arjie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can't have been recent. Or perhaps it was and they violated the law. A standard IQ test is probably quite good at assessing if you'll be good at a programming job but it is also quite illegal unless it has passed through a battery of compliance paperwork - which it actually cannot pass because it would require the output of IQ tests to be race-equal and they cannot be both an IQ test and race-equal. This is lite…

"illegal unless it has passed through a battery of compliance paperwork" "This is literally a Title VII violation." Griggs v. Duke Power Co. held that "The [Civil Rights] Act [of 1964] does not preclude the use of testing or measuring procedures, but it does proscribe giving them controlling force unless they are demonstrably a reasonable measure of job performance." Why do you believe that prior documentation is req…

> Why do you believe that ...

Check his blog and find out. I particularly enjoyed the part where the best way to improve public transport is to keep poor people out, not to increase frequency.

Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#273

Post by rahimnathwani »

inigyou wrote: post #272
rahimnathwani wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"illegal unless it has passed through a battery of compliance paperwork" "This is literally a Title VII violation." Griggs v. Duke Power Co. held that "The [Civil Rights] Act [of 1964] does not preclude the use of testing or measuring procedures, but it does proscribe giving them controlling force unless they are demonstrably a reasonable measure of job performance." Why do you believe that prior documentation is req…

> Why do you believe that ... Check his blog and find out. I particularly enjoyed the part where the best way to improve public transport is to keep poor people out, not to increase frequency.

Is there a specific page on his blog that answers my question?

His suggestions for improving public transport are not relevant to this discussion.

Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#274

Post by modeless »

ninkendo wrote: post #149
AlecBG wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First one water is lower. Ball is more dense than water, in boat displaces its weight in water, in water displaces it's volume Dip for hill roll is faster

First one depends on the bowling ball. Most alleys have balls ranging from 7lb to 16lb, all the same volume, and the crossover point where they’d sink is 11.6lb. If it was a floating bowling ball, the lake water level would stay the same when you toss it from a boat. If it were a sinking one, it would decrease.

That's why the problem statement specifies that the bowling ball sinks.

Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#275

Post by arjie »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #255
arjie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can't have been recent. Or perhaps it was and they violated the law. A standard IQ test is probably quite good at assessing if you'll be good at a programming job but it is also quite illegal unless it has passed through a battery of compliance paperwork - which it actually cannot pass because it would require the output of IQ tests to be race-equal and they cannot be both an IQ test and race-equal. This is lite…

"illegal unless it has passed through a battery of compliance paperwork" "This is literally a Title VII violation." Griggs v. Duke Power Co. held that "The [Civil Rights] Act [of 1964] does not preclude the use of testing or measuring procedures, but it does proscribe giving them controlling force unless they are demonstrably a reasonable measure of job performance." Why do you believe that prior documentation is req…

Wow, I am entirely wrong here, huh? I thought that "demonstrably a reasonable measure of job performance" was held to the standard that it had to be proven fair (and consequently documented to have proven job impact).

EDIT: Hang on, I decided to just test the idea with the usual suspects and I don't see how you could design this in a way that works. You'd need some kind of non-contaminated testable outcome - lines of code etc. don't work - that is considered job performance which is scientifically validated in order to be able to survive the litigation that would follow the test.

I suppose the part that was wrong was that I claimed you can't run an IQ test. That's not true. You can. It just legally exposes you to a paperwork burden involving proof that it is required for job functionality - proof which you'll almost certainly fail because software engineer productivity isn't mechanically solved yet.

Is that the distinction? Listen, I've read your stuff and generally trust you and in any case I'm open to having my mind changed on this subject, but it seems like the actual thing is "Possible, but if you do it, you're going to find yourself in a massive paperwork and legal headache".

Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#276

Post by arjie »

tptacek wrote: post #253
arjie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can't have been recent. Or perhaps it was and they violated the law. A standard IQ test is probably quite good at assessing if you'll be good at a programming job but it is also quite illegal unless it has passed through a battery of compliance paperwork - which it actually cannot pass because it would require the output of IQ tests to be race-equal and they cannot be both an IQ test and race-equal. This is lite…

I'm a broken record about this, but no, it's not illegal to administer IQ tests in white-collar employment, and it doesn't take a battery of compliance paperwork to do so. This is an Internet myth.

Well, you and rahimnathwani up there have convinced me. Now I have to go around and deprogram everyone I said this to...

Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#277

Post by tptacek »

arjie wrote: post #276
tptacek wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a broken record about this, but no, it's not illegal to administer IQ tests in white-collar employment, and it doesn't take a battery of compliance paperwork to do so. This is an Internet myth.

Well, you and rahimnathwani up there have convinced me. Now I have to go around and deprogram everyone I said this to...

It's a really widespread myth, hard to fault anybody for believing it. There's even a kernel of truth to it (Griggs).

Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#278

Post by inigyou »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #273
inigyou wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you believe that ... Check his blog and find out. I particularly enjoyed the part where the best way to improve public transport is to keep poor people out, not to increase frequency.

Is there a specific page on his blog that answers my question? His suggestions for improving public transport are not relevant to this discussion.

You might alternatively prefer the ones about how health insurance never denies care, Luigi Mangione was a bad guy, or Democrats have made it profitable to be a victim.

Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#279

Post by buildbot »

goodpoint wrote: post #179
buildbot wrote: post #16

Counterpoint to many responses here - when I have interviewed people, it’s a really positive signal if the candidate says they have already seen a problem- the we can move onto something more interesting! Not solving does not mean failure either. As a candidate myself I always mention if I have seen similar problems, such as finding primes - real example, and I was hired on that loop at Microsoft! On the other hand,…

> Be honest; it’s more likely you will be hired by honest people. He applied for Microsoft.

The experience I was referencing was actually Microsoft!

Re: That time when I failed the Microsoft interview

#280

Post by modeless »

pjmlp wrote: post #132
modeless wrote: post #65

Once long ago when I interviewed at Apple I was asked the classic "fork in the road, two guys, one always tells the truth and one always lies" riddle, with complete earnestness as far as I could tell. Possibly the single worst interview question I've ever been asked. Of course I told the interviewer I'd heard it before and then gave the correct answer. In my case we just ended up chatting about previous experience in…

Here a few additional teasers, - How many golf balls fit into the plane - How many gas stations exist in country (or alternative version with city ) - How many turns do you have to go on a gum machine until colour comes out? Naturally they all evaluate properly the skills required for the job, and other professions get asked the same kind of stupid questions. Unless it is for a position I really, really want, or are…

Oh yeah the estimation problems are terrible. The probability ones are at least notionally trying to test your math skills. But still pretty far from being relevant in almost all cases.
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