More German than many Germans • Hacker News Board

Re: More German than many Germans

#461

Post by gyulai » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 1:46 PM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #428

gyulai wrote: post #364

What percentage of your productive capacity is used for proper recycling and garbage disposal? ...that's the real metric to measure Germanness by, and yet it never got mentioned once!

I don't know why people make such a big deal out of this. When I travelled to Germany on holiday, it was a good sign to me that there were so many different bins. It tells me that they are doing a lot of recycling and very little dumping into landfills. If you look at other similarly rich countries that care a lot about the environment, it is similar.

...if you've only visited and never lived here for an extended period of time, you haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg. Also, the rules and systems are different from one municipality to another.

Here are some of the highlights for the one I live in.

AI image recognition on garbage trucks. -- Yes you've heard right. You do still need a fax machine in Germany to interact with the government. But when it comes to the garbage: Bring in the f##ing AI!! -- If you get the separation or packaging wrong, they won't collect the ton, and will instead leave a note to chastise you. You can meditate on your love for the green party, as you rummage through your weeks-old biodisposables to re-separate, and thank them next time at the polling booth.

Some kinds of garbage can go in the collections, others need to go to a recycling center. Just load up your car with everything you need to get rid of. Drive to a recycling center. Find out that it's closed (opening hours are maximally inconvenient; plan on burning several vacation days for visits to recycling centers that are open during your core working hours only). Once you make it to the recycling center, someone will take X, but tell you they don't take Y, and to try the recycling center several towns over. Of course they are closed. Plan on having your car serve as a garbage truck for several weeks, before it's finally empty.

Of course, some things you can't get rid of at any recycling center: They need to go to a collection. Do you have several cubic meters of styrofoam to dispose of, after re-furnishing your apartment from IKEA? Well tough luck. Find a place to store them for several weeks until the next collection. Then cut them into pieces so they fit in the yellow bag, which is only available in a single size. Then put the many many bags out into the street. If it's a windy day, collect that stuff from all over the street several times. If you're lucky, the garbage truck actually arrives. More likely: You miss the collection several times, because the pickup times are maximally inconvenient and unpredictable. In the meantime, the storage problem is all yours.

Do I need to continue? Because I could continue.

Re: More German than many Germans

#462

Post by 100percentjake » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 1:50 PM UTC

rockyj wrote: post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

Curious to get some perspective: How viable would starting a career in IT/Technology in Germany be as a mildly autistic American with an inability to learn foreign languages? I hear many opinions about this ranging from "English is commonly spoke, you'll be fine" to "You can visit but you will be unable to settle down due to xenophobia". The EU is incredibly appealing as someone highly dissatisfied with the trajectory of the US, and though I am aware many European countries are slowly following the same trajectory at least it'd give me a few more years of "this is fine".

My family pre-immigration 150 years ago still exists in Germany and now appears to own a large road-construction concrete company. I wonder if that string is worth pulling.

Re: More German than many Germans

#463

Post by ashtonshears » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 1:57 PM UTC

100percentjake wrote: post #462

rockyj wrote: post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

Curious to get some perspective: How viable would starting a career in IT/Technology in Germany be as a mildly autistic American with an inability to learn foreign languages? I hear many opinions about this ranging from "English is commonly spoke, you'll be fine" to "You can visit but you will be unable to settle down due to xenophobia". The EU is incredibly appealing as someone highly dissatisfied with the trajector…

It seems unwise to go to a country without a plan to learn the language. If you are as unable to learn languages as you stated, then I suggest living in English speaking countries for life

Re: More German than many Germans

#464

Post by Yasuraka » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 2:07 PM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #427

Yasuraka wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are a reasonable person and integrate you will be treated as one of their own. You won't, even if you were born and raised here - 3rd generation Turks get treated worse after 60 years than Ukranians after 4, let alone someone with an arab name, all else being equal[1]. This is natural in almost all nations for its humans in all of them, but the rampant arrogance and hypocrisy is exceptional and one does no g…

My hot take about Turks struggling to integrate: The didn't try hard enough. They held on to too much of their Islamic religion and culture. It didn't mix well with the primarily Christian religion and culture of Germany. The Ukranians have much more culturally in common with Germans which is why they have integrated so much faster.

You are describing assimilation, not integration, also disproven by the fact that the name alone is the only differentiator in this example. Plenty of justifications will be found ex-facto in any case, all are excuses.

I'm not claiming any nation to be above racism, in fact globally most are worse, but this one is really high on its own supply.

Re: More German than many Germans

#465

Post by rglullis » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 2:09 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #459

rglullis wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ah, so basically you want more rules. Cathy Newman, is that you?

On a more serious note, if you prefer more flexibility and wildness try Poland. Very culturally similar to Germany but with more lean towards common sense however it is understood in the moment by involved parties.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49166002

Re: More German than many Germans

#466

Post by OoooooooO » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 2:34 PM UTC

100percentjake wrote: post #462

rockyj wrote: post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

Curious to get some perspective: How viable would starting a career in IT/Technology in Germany be as a mildly autistic American with an inability to learn foreign languages? I hear many opinions about this ranging from "English is commonly spoke, you'll be fine" to "You can visit but you will be unable to settle down due to xenophobia". The EU is incredibly appealing as someone highly dissatisfied with the trajector…

Learning the language is vital here. Most things are not in english but only in german. Every official letter you receive will be in german.

Looking for an apartment? Better speak german with the landlord.

You may get through for a few years in an international city like Hamburg, Berlin, München if you find a job at an international company. But long term? Learn german or you will suffer.

Re: More German than many Germans

#467

Post by piva00 » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 2:38 PM UTC

kmijyiyxfbklao wrote: post #357

piva00 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you like how a country does things, why not change the country you originate from instead of going to that other country? Because it's neigh impossible for an individual to meaningfully change parts of the culture they dislike which are ingrained for hundreds of years. How am I supposed to change one of the major issues plaguing my home country: corruption? It's ingrained at all levels, from politicians to the p…

You are supposed to fixed the same way the first world countries fixed it, by staying there are improving things with the other people that want to improve things. Oh wait they all left for other countries, oops I guess people that couldn't leave get to stay and rot in unfixable corruption.

That's what happens when a culture is broken to the point of requiring generations of work to fix it: people who are unhappy will leave because there's no hope for enough to change to keep them there.

How do you imagine that me staying in Brazil would have helped fixing major issues with corruption and violence? It's my life, I won't waste it living in a fantasy that as an individual I will have any meaningful impact on lowering corruption, homicides, robberies, so on and so forth.

I'm just a person trying to live a good life, my home country didn't provide it while I tried to live with my values, I decided to move on and had the privilege to be able to do so, of course I will take it.

Re: More German than many Germans

#468

Post by piva00 » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 2:45 PM UTC

breppp wrote: post #362

piva00 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you like how a country does things, why not change the country you originate from instead of going to that other country? Because it's neigh impossible for an individual to meaningfully change parts of the culture they dislike which are ingrained for hundreds of years. How am I supposed to change one of the major issues plaguing my home country: corruption? It's ingrained at all levels, from politicians to the p…

> I cannot change that, it's part of the culture, it annoyed me to no end, and my individual actions didn't matter at all while making my life harder. That's never true, countries changed extremely, also cultural-wise. If talking Germany the basic example is changing from a very militaristic society (far before the Nazis) to a rather pacifist society. If talking corruption, my own country has progressively became far…

> That's never true, countries changed extremely, also cultural-wise. If talking Germany the basic example is changing from a very militaristic society (far before the Nazis) to a rather pacifist society.

After suffering a massive defeat, losing millions of lives, and being occupied for decades.

Otherwise culture changes slowly, I won't waste my lifetime to see 5-10% improvements, you are totally free to move to Brazil and fix it for us since it seems to be an easy task for you.

> If talking corruption, my own country has progressively became far less corrupt over my lifetime

In mine it only got worse, religious nuts like Evangelicals only accumulated more power over my life there, in my almost 30 years living there progress outside of economical terms got stuck.

Corruption is only one issue, violence is another major one, macho-culture and sexism is yet another, religiousness in the form of Evangelicalism with tele-pastors only grew to become >50% of the population.

It's an absolute fantasy that me staying there for my next 30-50 years of life would've made any difference. I only have one life, I won't waste it at a place where I always felt like a fish out of water with no power to change it. My life won't be dedicated to politics and power plays to the point where I could have any meaningful impact, I'm just a normal person trying to live a decent life, not an agent of change, lol.

You are completely invited to move there and change it though.

Re: More German than many Germans

#469

Post by i-blis » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 2:46 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #280

gib444 wrote: post #101

> People seem to think a German passport is handed out easily now. It isn't. You have to prove you paid into the social system for at least five years. You have to pass the citizenship test. You need German at B1 level. You need a sustainable livelihood while your application is running. And most importantly, you have to accept the democratic values of this country. That is still relatively easy. 5 years is not a lon…

This is a lower requirement than permanent residence in Switzerland for comparison.

It seems not to be the case. According to SEM (Staatssekretariat für Migration), a B1 oral level and A1 written level at least are required to be granted permanent residency and B1/A2 (oral/written) for naturalisation [1] in one of the four national languages. They do not state the bar to admission.

[1] https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/de/home/integration-einbuergeru...

Re: More German than many Germans

#470

Post by aleph_minus_one » Tue, Aug 04, 2026, 2:50 PM UTC

piva00 wrote: post #467

kmijyiyxfbklao wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are supposed to fixed the same way the first world countries fixed it, by staying there are improving things with the other people that want to improve things. Oh wait they all left for other countries, oops I guess people that couldn't leave get to stay and rot in unfixable corruption.

That's what happens when a culture is broken to the point of requiring generations of work to fix it: people who are unhappy will leave because there's no hope for enough to change to keep them there. How do you imagine that me staying in Brazil would have helped fixing major issues with corruption and violence? It's my life, I won't waste it living in a fantasy that as an individual I will have any meaningful impact…

> I won't waste it living in a fantasy that as an individual I will have any meaningful impact on lowering corruption, homicides, robberies, so on and so forth.

The difference is: Some people are willing incredibly hard to fight for this, even though it is obvious to them that they will have no meaningful impact. Shouldn't you rather be willing to fight magnitudes harder if you know that you will have no meaningful impact because:

- Realizing that you will have no meaningful impact rather makes you realize how important the fight is.

- When you know that you won't have any chance of a meaningful impact, you will much less held back by having any kind of mercy with any person that is part of the corrupt system.