We need a aponge country for these summers, something that can hold onto water.
Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
241–250 of 252 posts
Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-energy-p... People die from the operation & externalities of every energy source, it's just that Nuclear power has orders of magnitude fewer deaths per kilowatt-hour than the dirtier energy sources these regulations have pushed energy production towards. I'm sure some lives would be lost if Nuclear Power faced the same regulatory costs that other energy sources do,…
>Nuclear power has orders of magnitude fewer deaths per kilowatt-hour By this logic the minuteman missile is harmless. It hasn’t killed anyone, right? Nuclear power has the potential to cause orders of magnitude more damage than any other power plant. Again, what has happened is irrelevant, the risk is all about what could happen.
I think you're seriously misunderstanding the statistic I posted.
I didn't post aggregate deaths from different power sources, I posted deaths per terawatt-hour of energy produced!
This figure includes deaths from every nuclear accident, and yet it shows getting energy from nuclear power is orders of magnitude safer than getting the same energy from the fossil fuels that have replaced nuclear power in countries that have phased them out. (like germany)
Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-energy-p... People die from the operation & externalities of every energy source, it's just that Nuclear power has orders of magnitude fewer deaths per kilowatt-hour than the dirtier energy sources these regulations have pushed energy production towards. I'm sure some lives would be lost if Nuclear Power faced the same regulatory costs that other energy sources do,…
Where would unregulated nuclear power go on that chart?
Most of the nuclear power that makes up that chart was built when there was significantly less regulation on reactors than there is today.
Even if deregulation increased nuclear deaths per watt by two orders of magnitude (which I strongly doubt!), nuclear would still be orders of magnitude safer than the fossil fuels that have replaced it across the western world.
Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Nuclear power has orders of magnitude fewer deaths per kilowatt-hour By this logic the minuteman missile is harmless. It hasn’t killed anyone, right? Nuclear power has the potential to cause orders of magnitude more damage than any other power plant. Again, what has happened is irrelevant, the risk is all about what could happen.
I think you're seriously misunderstanding the statistic I posted. I didn't post aggregate deaths from different power sources, I posted deaths per terawatt-hour of energy produced! This figure includes deaths from every nuclear accident, and yet it shows getting energy from nuclear power is orders of magnitude safer than getting the same energy from the fossil fuels that have replaced nuclear power in countries that…
> I think you're seriously misunderstanding the statistic I posted.
Not at all, i am very familiar with this argument, but it’s flawed.
It doesn’t matter at all how many people have died so far. It is entirely irrelevant for determining the risk.
Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where would unregulated nuclear power go on that chart?
Most of the nuclear power that makes up that chart was built when there was significantly less regulation on reactors than there is today. Even if deregulation increased nuclear deaths per watt by two orders of magnitude (which I strongly doubt!), nuclear would still be orders of magnitude safer than the fossil fuels that have replaced it across the western world.
>Even if deregulation increased nuclear deaths per watt by two orders of magnitude (which I strongly doubt!)
Why doubt it?
Chernobyl alone was very close to causing millions of deaths. The actual accident released only about 5% of the core, but had the graphite fire not been extinguished, places as far away as Scotland and Scandinavia would not be able to grow enough edible food within their borders for decades. Europe would starve. Leukemia cases would be in the millions.
The exclusion zone around Chernobyl would be hundreds of kilometers instead of 30.
If the ground water barrier had been broken - which was likely - the ground water for tens of millions of people would be poisoned for centuries.
The only reason to doubt it is that two orders of magnitude is probably not enough.
Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
#246Of course a 1960's design isn't adapted to current weather conditions. That doesn't mean the whole technology is useless, like so many commenters imply. Any new build can and will include cooling adapted to hotter conditions.
And new builds take a lot of time and a lot of money.
And then you habe the whole Russian drone war thing, where concentrating so much energy production on one point maybe be a bad idea
Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are people who advocate for an all nuclear strategy but other than the ones whose non-profit gets fossil fuel industry contributions it seems to be much less common than a decade ago because the economics are undeniable now.
This seems like a strawmen. Most nuclear advocates I see online just want nuclear power given the same subsidies and chances that PV/Wind get.
Most nuclear advocates don’t seem to realize how incompetent and short-sighted humans are collectively, and don’t recognize the inevitable implications of that. They prove this when they complain about how regulations are stifling nuclear power.
Oh yes, let’s just deregulate nuclear power, why not? There’s no strong enough way to describe the stupidity of this.
Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're seriously misunderstanding the statistic I posted. I didn't post aggregate deaths from different power sources, I posted deaths per terawatt-hour of energy produced! This figure includes deaths from every nuclear accident, and yet it shows getting energy from nuclear power is orders of magnitude safer than getting the same energy from the fossil fuels that have replaced nuclear power in countries that…
> I think you're seriously misunderstanding the statistic I posted. Not at all, i am very familiar with this argument, but it’s flawed. It doesn’t matter at all how many people have died so far. It is entirely irrelevant for determining the risk.
How is it irrelevant? It establishes the base rate under specific regulatory regimes.
Most of the nuclear plants that make up that base rate were built when nuclear regulations were much much more lax than they are now, and yet Nuclear ends up with the safest track record out of all energy sources.
Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of the nuclear power that makes up that chart was built when there was significantly less regulation on reactors than there is today. Even if deregulation increased nuclear deaths per watt by two orders of magnitude (which I strongly doubt!), nuclear would still be orders of magnitude safer than the fossil fuels that have replaced it across the western world.
>Even if deregulation increased nuclear deaths per watt by two orders of magnitude (which I strongly doubt!) Why doubt it? Chernobyl alone was very close to causing millions of deaths. The actual accident released only about 5% of the core, but had the graphite fire not been extinguished, places as far away as Scotland and Scandinavia would not be able to grow enough edible food within their borders for decades. Euro…
I hadn't heard any of these claims before.
Without a source, I decided to ask chatgpt. Its assessment is that essentially every claim in this comment is false. If you think chatgpt is wrong can you explain why?
Re: Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems like a strawmen. Most nuclear advocates I see online just want nuclear power given the same subsidies and chances that PV/Wind get.
Most nuclear advocates don’t seem to realize how incompetent and short-sighted humans are collectively, and don’t recognize the inevitable implications of that. They prove this when they complain about how regulations are stifling nuclear power. Oh yes, let’s just deregulate nuclear power, why not? There’s no strong enough way to describe the stupidity of this.
Maybe its because a lot of those regulations were made in bad faith to stop invention and growth. Regulations are obviously necessary and good, but not all regulations are that.