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Beauty in my backyard

worksinprogress.co

11–20 of 34 posts

Re: Beauty in my backyard

#11

Most new single home construction in Germany is in the form of cubes with flat roofs, absolutely ugly and will look like crap in 30-50 years (for me it looks like crap now already), see e.g. [1]. Insanity but for the builder it makes sense as it’s the cheapest way to conform to the energy saving requirements and maximize living room per lot size which is restricted due to idiotic zoning laws. I don’t get how this can…

Aren't flat roofs at strongly increased risk of leakage? And need to be sealed very, very carefully? More than just looking crap in 30 years (agreed they do now) I worry, what about massive renovation required in 15 years? And that is an insane cost for a small, ugly building.

In theory no, depends on how it’s done. It’s mostly a concrete ceiling with Bitumen and another polyethylene based layer on top normally, requires renewal every 30-50 years but it will stay tight if done right, at least it’s not much worse than a tiled roof.

Re: Beauty in my backyard

#12

I skimmed three articles of this publication: one saying the more permittent zoning policies on historic urban areas would allow more growth and more environmentally sustainable buildings; other saying Europe is falling behind its auto-manufacturing and does not have its own Tesla, because they cannot kick out workers fast enough; third that Australia stopped asylum seeker by simply preventing boats coming in (and br…

The problem with that worldview is that it's always the same look from the same perspective that is, the economic machine is an extractive system (top Your perspective ignores the fact that some of "us, the people" are actually benefiting from this economic machine/collective organization. In industrialized societies, it's been decades that even the people at the bottom of the social ladder have "more to lose than their chains". And no matter how morally responsible ex-colonizing nations are, it is a fact that newcomers have to be somewhat integrated economically and culturally and that no society knows how to do that at the scale of arrivals. It turns out reality is not as simple as our moral world is and it takes time and thankless work to figure out what's happening. Morality is somewhat well-equipped at handling relationships and at maybe detecting the economic/political systems failure modes but it is not well-equipped at solving societal issues.

The truth is that it is easy to attribute merit and blame but har to actually trying to make relevant change. Our vision of History is somewhat biased because we remember people who were responsible for positive change as people with the "right" position but it is often forgotten how much strategy, technical issues they've had to solve fort those to prevail :

https://www.amazon.fr/-/en/Waging-Good-War-Thomas-Ricks/dp/1...?

Re: Beauty in my backyard

#13
The point about conservationism being not a thing until 1950s seems a bit blunt/misleading to anyone who's heard about Viollet-le-Duc and co. Conserving ancient building was definitely a huge thing in 19th century Europe. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Viollet-le-Duc and Hugo's endless ramblings about medieval buildings in Notre-Dame https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris/Livre_tro...

Re: Beauty in my backyard

#14
The problem is that this equates two very different way of building houses, and lumps them together.

For the USA, the reasons for zoning were quite different to europe. Each country had different reasons for different times.

In the UK, post war planners were setting out to make a new modernist utopia, or a new haven for personal transportation, or clearing the slums for homes of the future.

Parts of new york's policy was slum clearance, a lot of it was trying to keep "the poors" from bothering rich people.(There are other more distasteful dimensions to that, which are better covered by other people) The last part was about making a shit tonne of money.

I think the other thing alluded to but not explicitly mentioned is that nobody likes new houses. Even less people like houses from 30 years ago. Even less people like houses that are designed to hold people who are "un desirable"

Re: Beauty in my backyard

#16
When it comes to the UK, I think this diagnosis that people lost trust that new buildings would beautify rather than uglify their towns and cities, is definitely a strong part of the picture.

But the story is wider than this because even when we look at domestic housing, we find that people in general prefer the older housing, and it's not only because of the looks. It's a bigger picture of pervasive enshittification.

Pre-war housing often has higher ceilings and larger rooms. Houses built around the 1930s often have thicker walls as well and just feel better made. Usually they are on more generous plots. By contrast newer houses are built on as little space as the developer thinks they can get away with, are seemingly made of sellotape and cardboard and usually have far smaller rooms with lower ceilings.

Couple this with ugly (and if we're talking post-war, blocky, concrete) town and city centre developments, and it's easy to see why people are turned off a lot of new development.

I also wanted to address this -

> Thus many American, Canadian and Australian cities have seen forests of skyscrapers rising in their downtowns, while their vast suburbs, full of homeowning NIMBYs, remain petrified at low densities.

Well, AFAICT in Australia that's what people want, and with the amount of landmass we have, I don't really see why that shouldn't be allowed to continue. Unfortunately the forces of enshittification are at work here too, with new houses now being built almost to the very edges of much smaller plots, even at the outer edges of the cities.

Re: Beauty in my backyard

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't flat roofs at strongly increased risk of leakage? And need to be sealed very, very carefully? More than just looking crap in 30 years (agreed they do now) I worry, what about massive renovation required in 15 years? And that is an insane cost for a small, ugly building.

In theory no, depends on how it’s done. It’s mostly a concrete ceiling with Bitumen and another polyethylene based layer on top normally, requires renewal every 30-50 years but it will stay tight if done right, at least it’s not much worse than a tiled roof.

Is it better in some other way than an angled tile roof? I suppose you get more interior room at the same heights at least. Where I'm from heavy snow kinda rules out flat roofs so I'm unfamiliar with the reasons you'd want them.

Re: Beauty in my backyard

#18

I skimmed three articles of this publication: one saying the more permittent zoning policies on historic urban areas would allow more growth and more environmentally sustainable buildings; other saying Europe is falling behind its auto-manufacturing and does not have its own Tesla, because they cannot kick out workers fast enough; third that Australia stopped asylum seeker by simply preventing boats coming in (and br…

> Destroy historic urban centres so we can make money building dystopian hellholes

I'm not sure I took that away from this article so much as "Architects and planners need to stop building ugly-ass monstrosities so people might actually celebrate urban renewal again".

Re: Beauty in my backyard

#19
post #10

> Conservationism was a reaction to postwar redevelopment, as its proponents claimed. But it was less a reaction to what the modernists destroyed, than to what they created. Since they’re mostly talking about the US, the thesis here is wrong. Almost all NIMBYism of the era was borne of redlining and white flight in the post-war era, which drove whites out of the cities to the burbs because there were too many “colore…

I'm sure some NIMBYism can be attributed to that, but I think too often it's described as the only reason, ignoring the real problems that come with new and denser development, many of which could be mitigated.

Re: Beauty in my backyard

#20
I don’t think this is true.

Opposition is not really related to aesthetics.

People fight even theoretical housing (zoning). NIMBYs oppose building housing on derelict / ugly lots. Architectural review is used by neighbors to stop housing - not because they’re preservationists - but for a load of unrelated issues and architecture is a convenient veto point.

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