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LLMs reward expertise

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411–420 of 606 posts

Re: LLMs reward expertise

#411
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if you're willing to put in that much effort. I started on this path literally about as soon as I could read thanks to the family having bought a Commodore 64 for my older siblings, but also perfect timing in that when I got to this age the sibling whose room it was in had just gone off to university. Most people are not like this, in much the same way that they're not going to read the T&C end-to-end (another…

What an ode to exceptionalism /s You also think that you are smarter than the people flooding Ceuta streets these days, don't you?

> What an ode to exceptionalism

I've had people criticise me for having had the opportunity to learn in that way, as they did not.

> You also think that you are smarter than the people flooding Ceuta streets these days, don't you?

No, why would I think that? I don't know them, the only thing I can say is in their favour: moving country to better your situation is difficult and them getting as far as they did is a demonstration of putting in a lot of effort of the exact type I praise by default.

Re: LLMs reward expertise

#412

Not sure I agree with this. The math guy at anthropic's prompts are essentially: "suppose you’ve gotta resolve the $CONJECTURE, like absolutely have to, everything depends on it. think really hard, and try to come up with a bunch of ideas to try. but remember to trust yourself and not necessarily in conventional wisdom!!" https://claude.ai/share/25740bd5-aa97-4bd7-bf58-c4df3793fda7 https://xcancel.com/__alpoge__/stat…

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Re: LLMs reward expertise

#413

This is something that really needs to be formally studied. I'm inclined to say that this matches my own experience, but I can't rule out confirmation bias on my part. As a meticulous person generally looking for a very specific code outcome, I prompt in a way intended to get exactly the thing I have in mind, and my results reflect that. But on the other hand, I have coworkers who type ten-word prompts with very limi…

Meanwhile all I do is vibecode. I get the outcomes I want though. I see vibe coded apps as requirement documents. Rarely do I have to engineer. If my job gave me some actual tasks, then maybe I'd engineer something. But at home? Vibe coding all the way. I'm open to engineering, but I need a compelling reason such as: the app is fundamentally broken and an LLM is going in circles. When the only user is me, there are n…

I suck at writing code, so strictly speaking: Everything I do is vibecoded.

The stuff that I produce in this way would probably be considered by many to be unusable trash. But it solves the problems I have, and it does so with exactly the amount of precision that I demand.

When I built a PWM fan controller for a pro audio amplifier, I was very particular about some aspects. I wanted maximum resolution from the DS1820B temperature sensors (which is a relatively slow mode where reads take ~750ms, and often the bot is primarily interested in fast), and resolutely-consistent PWM output (so software PWM was a non-starter).

It was very important to me that the fan speed ramp smoothly and without audibly-discernible steps, so the target output goes through a low-pass filter to smooth things out and the final PWM value gets recalculated at a completely-overkilled rate of 1KHz.

Power consumption was a very deliberate non-concern: The power used by the MCU is ~nothing compared to that of the whole of the system, so optimizing towards reducing it was never my goal.

At the end, it's a rewarding little project that is all wrapped into a state machine that burns clock cycles like they're free (they are free!), and it works very well.

There's parts of this thing that I do not understand at all, and that I have no desire to understand.

But if I hadn't been so particular about the parts I did care about, then: An underspecified one-shot prompt seems like it would probably have just produced a loop with a lazy 1-second sleep at the end, since being sleepy and power-efficient was a feature that the bot kept working to reintroduce.

I spent a lot of time working to dismantle the bot's proclivities to be this way, and I probably would not be happy with the end result if I had just let it do its thing.

Differently-stated: It could have been an unsupervised one-shot prompt, and the result almost certainly would have done the job of keeping the amplifier cool. (I just would not like it.)

Re: LLMs reward expertise

#414

I think this is extremely true when it comes to prompting, but not only in this way. I would add that this also applies to an LLM's output on deep enough topics. Anyone can point at a public GitHub repo and have an LLM write the documentation for it. Whether that documentation is good requires understanding that codebase. There's no way around expertise unless we're talking about strictly mechanical tasks. I do think…

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Re: LLMs reward expertise

#415
This reminded me of Gaussian Processes. You start out with n-dimensional unconstrained (but strongly correlated) gaussians. As soon as constraints (data) are added (mathematically it's called conditioning), the thing goes more and more into shape.

Prompting feels a lot like this conditioning phase to me. You start with an LLM in unconstrained mode, basically just a "soup" of knowledge. If you prompt wisely, you immediately condition the LLM into "your space of (domain) knowledge".

What comes out is an extended version of your existing knowledge.

Re: LLMs reward expertise

#416
post #157
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the code sucks, because it was vibe coded by an LLM over a dozen disparate sessions?

Then that's the point. You know the code sucks, the guy who vibecoded it either didn't know or didn't care. That's the added value.

But how would you know? If you're an inexperienced developer you may well end up ingraining bad patterns without even realizing it.

Re: LLMs reward expertise

#417

I did a test a few months ago. A friend of mine wanted to develop what i understood to be a simple single page web app. But since she didn’t have any software engineering experience she asked me to help. Around that time everyone was talking about how literally anyone can develop software with LLMs i asked her if she could give it a try first, and if I could watch the attempt. I was fully expecting that writing the c…

You can see the same thing with restaurants generating their own menus/pictures. Some of them look absolutely terrible, visually ugly, way too information dense, the classic piss filter, etc. idk how they do it, even the most basic prompt I can come up with makes something 10x better, and when I put in my amateur photography knowledge/keywords in it gets pretty close to what I'd consider a good pre LLM quality menu. Literally just adding "make it look nicer/cleaner" seems to get rid of most problems, but people just don't care apparently.

Re: LLMs reward expertise

#418
The actual "prompting trick" that dramatically improves your results is often to add just two or three words, like "use library foo", "write in ", " algorithm". To know which two or three words apply in your situation, you need a deep understanding of both the problem and the solution space.

Your prompt might look almost the same as the one from somebody with a good understanding of the requirements but no technical competency, plus maybe one or two sentences. Those one or two sentences dramatically change the results, and what those sentences are differs from prompt to prompt.

Re: LLMs reward expertise

#419

I did a test a few months ago. A friend of mine wanted to develop what i understood to be a simple single page web app. But since she didn’t have any software engineering experience she asked me to help. Around that time everyone was talking about how literally anyone can develop software with LLMs i asked her if she could give it a try first, and if I could watch the attempt. I was fully expecting that writing the c…

I ran a similar test and got completely different results. My girlfriend (hair stylist/artist) with zero coding background mentioned a Telegram bot idea. I asked "Why not build it yourself?" I gave her a Windows laptop, but she said she wanted what I have instead. So I handed her a USB stick and told her she was on her own now. Fast forward: she now runs Arch Linux with Hyprland (I use Xorg/i3 though), fully riced with cats. I only interfered on partitioning to preserve my data. She even installed Steam and got Portal running (that was her "watch this" flex after I told her not to even try). She pulled all of this off using a free-tier Gemini chat.

For the bot, a friend gave her a Kimi 2.7 key. She set up their harness and built a working bot in a matter of days. She even got a free Oracle VPS for deployment, though I stopped her there to check security first (still haven't had time, unfortunately). She uses that laptop daily now and says she enjoys it over Windows by a mile.

Re: LLMs reward expertise

#420
post #415

This reminded me of Gaussian Processes. You start out with n-dimensional unconstrained (but strongly correlated) gaussians. As soon as constraints (data) are added (mathematically it's called conditioning), the thing goes more and more into shape. Prompting feels a lot like this conditioning phase to me. You start with an LLM in unconstrained mode, basically just a "soup" of knowledge. If you prompt wisely, you immed…

Yes I love this comment! GPs are awesome.

Prompting is conditioning, that is what it is. The visual of a GP (like the thing you get if you google image search “Gaussian process”) is a great metaphor for what prompting an LLM is doing.

The output of the LLM is the logits which is sampled - plucking out tokens from a distribution. The input of the LLM is data which constrains the logits. That is what it is.

That’s also how you know that AI will never “solve” intelligence (the way the boosters say it will) without some general mechanism for this conditioning process. The ultimate mechanism would be embodiment; the crappy mechanism we have now is something like openCLAW.

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