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More German than many Germans

mertbulan.com

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Re: More German than many Germans

#391

Post by guenthert »

rockyj wrote: post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

> In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality.

I'm sure some of the more entrepreneurial minds will argue that many of those rules stifle innovation and progress. But also on a personal level, at least to this returning German, some of the rules seem silly at best and at worst cause some underlying sense of oppression. Why, e.g., is there a Meldegesetz/Meldeamt? I survived for 25+ years in California without such.

There are safety/freedom tradeoffs and whether they are worth it, everyone has to decide for themselves (at least Germans are granted the liberty to leave, if they don't like it). Many Germans long for a more adventurous life, but in the end most prefer to visit, rather than emigrate to, foreign shores.

Re: More German than many Germans

#392

Post by like_any_other »

rockyj wrote: post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

> rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality.

They most assuredly do not ensure equality, which is exactly why there is such a push to eliminate standardized tests from college entrance criteria:

The Time Is Now: Eliminating the LSAT for the Sake of Diversity - https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2023/03/09/the-time-is...

ABA votes to end law schools' LSAT requirement, but not until 2025 - https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/aba-votes-end-la...

Universities Dropping Admission Tests Experience Boost in Student Diversity - https://scienmag.com/universities-dropping-admission-tests-e...

Eliminating Standardized Tests To Achieve Racial Equity In Post-Affirmative Action College Admissions - https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaunharper/2023/07/09/eliminat...

Re: More German than many Germans

#393

Post by fxwin »

> Across from our office there was an Italian restaurant where we went for pizza sometimes. The pizzas were very tasty and huge, and it was the only place that sold half a pizza.

Immediately knew which restaurant (franchise) he is talking about here :D

Re: More German than many Germans

#394

Post by derriz »

rglullis wrote: post #337
holgerschurig wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is... what about the german culture do you know? Do you know the "functional" Brother Grimm's tales? Or the "dry" humor of Dieter Hallervorden if you're a bit older? (okay, Christian Ehring from extra3 is perhaps really dry ...) Do you know the rigid songs of, say Nena or Einstürzende Neubauten? Or is the music of BAP functional to you? Are the books of Andreas Eschbach dry? Or the lyrics of Ingeborg Bac…

It's not a matter of not knowing the language. I grew up in Brazil but studied in a German school from grades 6-12. I used to watch Deutsche Welle more than I'd watch canned US sitcoms on cable. I can understand a joke, and I can even (most of the times) understand the intention of the joke. But it doesn't mean that I find it funny . As for "culture", I don't think we are using it in the same way. I mean in the sense…

BBQ culture is different in different parts of the world - I experienced what you describe in Switzerland once (bring and grill your own food). Where I’m from, it’s bring your own booze but host is expected to provide all the food. Where my partner is from, you’re expected to bring either dessert or salad - but not booze or stuff for the grill. I think you’re reading too much into some fairly minor difference in etiquette. If you want to experience real culture-shock, try using a sauna in a German-speaking country…

Re: More German than many Germans

#395

Post by Yasuraka »

kioleanu wrote: post #39

There is one rule of thumb that I’ve noticed: if you are a reasonable person and integrate you will be treated as one of their own. Otherwise not. Your article mirrors my own experience 1:1, it’s like I’ve written it myself. Apart from the citizenship process. Even though it was also 14 months long (eerie lol), I had to do a lot of noise about it, because they are processing applications out of order (some people got…

> if you are a reasonable person and integrate you will be treated as one of their own.

You won't, even if you were born and raised here - 3rd generation Turks get treated worse after 60 years than Ukranians after 4, let alone someone with an arab name, all else being equal[1]. This is natural in almost all nations for its humans in all of them, but the rampant arrogance and hypocrisy is exceptional and one does no good reinforcing it.

[1] https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ausbildung-migrationshinter...

Re: More German than many Germans

#396

Post by sunshine-o »

wuschel wrote: post #65
rockyj wrote: post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

> Speaking of which, a lot of German natives complain and some are even leaving the country (around 100k left last year), but honestly I have visited / lived in nine countries, and people have no idea how good they have it here. The grass is always greener on the other side ... until you actually dare to find out. Having lived and worked in many a country, I second your opinion that it is often about trade offs. Prob…

> The grass is always greener on the other side ... until you actually dare to find out.

Yes this is the core problem.

The grass used to be very green in the "first world" (North America and Western Europe) but it is now getting dangerously yellow.

Instead of asking themselves the hard question why the grass is getting yellow the people in charge try to prove it is fine by bringing cows (it is an image here) from the "the third world", and say look the grass is not getting yellow because those cows like it.

This is why you usually see the collapse of the rose-colored glasses effect in third generation of immigrants.

So yes the grass can still been seen as relatively green in Germany, but I have regularly traveled there for decades and I can tell you as an external observer the country looks like it is going to hell over time.

You get a similar effect with westerners going to East Asia. A lot of them like it very much there wearing rose-colored glasses and can't figure out why the locals believe the future is dark for them.

Re: More German than many Germans

#397

Post by scotty79 »

4ggr0 wrote: post #377
Gud wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved from Sweden to Switzerland, and I don't know what that guy was talking about. Switzerland is an extremely well run country.

I mean it helps that there's around 9M people living there, 1/10th of Germany or about the same amount as London or New York. Also helps to accumulate wealth by taking care of global blood-money and being a diplomatic hub :) and let's not forget the tons of gold we got gifted about a hundred years ago, sadly can't quite remember where we got that from.

> Also helps to accumulate wealth by taking care of global blood-money and being a diplomatic hub

People say that, but ETFs that invest into plain old boring sectors of Swiss industry give long term returns half way between USA AI insanity and everything else in the world. So they must be doing something right with their industrial economy as well.

Re: More German than many Germans

#398

Post by vw_bulli »

Barrin92 wrote: post #381
vw_bulli wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect to be welcomed, but also not actively "unwelcomed" by many. I never said it's about racism; My extremely pale Italian friend was complaining about exactly this to me as well. The "Verbitterung" here (The fact that people apriori want to fight you, before even any interaction) is sad. Scandinavian countries are even more closed off, that's true, but they are not known to be hostile.

being German that's a sad thing to hear. I really do hope you stay because I think people genuinely do need to stand up to it, don't write us off too quickly. Verbitterung/Verrohung of public life seems to be omnipresent now, with the capital 'o' Other being attacked for everything. We ought to know better though. I've noticed it myself with my partner who is Japanese when visiting the country. Hostility I've not enc…

Agreed, and it unfortunately takes a very real toll on you long-term..

However, I want to also highlight that some of the sweetest, most supportive people I have ever met are German, including random people you meet outside. The person I look up to most also happens to be German.

I would absolutely not be where I am today if not for the support of dozens of Germans along the way. So I am very grateful for my countrymen and women, its not all grey :)

Re: More German than many Germans

#399

Post by scotty79 »

PfizerJaa wrote: post #114
Propelloni wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey newbie, I'm sorry my comment hurt you. But you don't have to be able to read German to apply the charity principle [1] and be a decent human being. Love you, too. [1] https://principle-of-charity.net/

What kind of person comes to an English speaking forum, drops a quote in a foreign language without any translation and pretends to not get called out?

What kind of a person complains in the comment instead of highlighting the text he doesn't understand, right-clicking and selecting "translate"?

Re: More German than many Germans

#400

Post by scotty79 »

rglullis wrote: post #66
lqet wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get run over by a car or bicycle while trying to board a bus outside an official station, or if you trip, the bus company is liable, and the driver will be in very big trouble. Also, wehret den Anfängen! If they started doing this, it would set an example: it would make it very difficult to keep the schedule, and would invite people to just walk into traffic to busses stopping at a red light.

> it would set an example No, it wouldn't. This type of logic only holds if we consider that drivers are automatons who can not analyze risks by themselves. Give the drivers autonomy to judge whether it's safe or not to deviate from the scheduled route. I rather have a driver signaling me "No, I will not open the door now because I don't think it is safe" over "No, I will not open the door now because I can't break t…

> Give the drivers autonomy to judge whether it's safe or not to deviate from the scheduled route.

But they are judging it. And deciding it's not safe. You may not agree but it's their evaluation of their safety. The rules are good for them because they can ensure their safety by obeying the rules.

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