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Apple is getting this wrong

openai.com

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Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#51

Post by frollogaston »

stndef wrote: post #45
zombot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So iOS is essentially unprofessional. A toy for those who have either no job or no private life. How does Android score in that respect?

It's been a while, but at a previous job (maybe 8 years ago) I was responsible for managing mobile devices and using Blackberry's MDM suite, you could have segregation of personal and private data, where you couldn't move data from one "container" to the other, including clipboard data. I'm out of the loop now, though. Android did have better support at the time, but if I remember correctly, devices that had a work m…

Yeah, I had an Android phone at work with separate personal/work profiles, but using the phone to begin with required one main account that had to be my personal. Might've been possible to remove after, but I was afraid to mess with it.

Wouldn't want one phone to be both personal and work though. They owned it, idk if I could've put my own sim in without unforeseen issues, it could've been wiped like you said, and it ofc got wiped when I quit.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#52

Post by sandeepkd »

gr_norm wrote: post #20
int_x wrote: post #11

To me, this looks like OpenAI is terrified and tries to come out ahead of the public opinion to control the narrative. Such a shit company. They built their whole business model on stolen data and act surprised when another company has zero trust in them. Based on their track record this lawsuit is not unexpected at all.

Yeah, based on their track record (I mean, even their name is a bad joke at this point) I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Turns out there's downsides to conducting yourself with little integrity.

> Apple now tries to shift the blame to “residual access”, but they also don’t disclose that this is a common issue with Apple which is caused by them failing to properly manage system access when people leave.

I have been fixated on this topic for some time. Most people behave in a regulated and lawful manner to be on safer side. They do not trespass into some ones home just cause the owner happened to leave the door open.

Companies are using LLMs to hack into other organizations and giving it a spin about agent escaping the sand box. I am surprised how the impacted organizations are not filing lawsuits for damages unless they themselves have something to hide, (probably their reputation). Interestingly from what I remember there is a law that binds the public companies to reveal any intrusion, unless I am missing the names of impacted companies by LLM agent great escape has not been revealed fully.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#53

Post by -0_0- »

dannyw wrote: post #23
prmoustache wrote: post #5

When I look at the imessage conversation, one thing strikes me: that guy looks to be using the same icloud account he used when working for Apple with OpenAI. Is he using his own personal account? Why do both Apple and OpenAI allow that in the first place, this look so amateur. I would have assumed each company would have opened a different account for him and locked him when leaving. Is it standard practice at both…

Apparently Apple encourages their employees to use their personal iCloud accounts for company information, because their own OS doesn't support one iPhone, multiple iCloud identities. Source: https://appleinsider.com/articles/26/08/03/confidential-appl... So yeah.

Always found it odd that Apple don't let you have a second separate business profile to switch your phone to for work - especially when you don't necessarily want to be bringing browser history/personal apps into your workplace or wifi. Having your iphone locked to your personal account also hobbles their continuity features if you work on a business computer with its own work account (as most businesses do).

Facebook is equally bad on this front - requiring you to use your personal account to administrate business pages (don't even get me started on how they forced large businesses to use a custom 2FA method they then phased out - locking people out of their personal accounts forever).

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#54

Post by simondotau »

pjmlp wrote: post #9
wodenokoto wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never worked at a place where they gave us corporate Apple accounts. We’ve always been asked to use our personal Apple account to install apps used for work.

Whereas I never worked in places where IT would not see that as a security violation.

Correct, because other companies are not in a position to certify the security of iCloud meeting their own standards. It shouldn’t surprise anyone that Apple trusts Apple more than other people trust Apple.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#55

Post by EagnaIonat »

dannyw wrote: post #23
prmoustache wrote: post #5

When I look at the imessage conversation, one thing strikes me: that guy looks to be using the same icloud account he used when working for Apple with OpenAI. Is he using his own personal account? Why do both Apple and OpenAI allow that in the first place, this look so amateur. I would have assumed each company would have opened a different account for him and locked him when leaving. Is it standard practice at both…

Apparently Apple encourages their employees to use their personal iCloud accounts for company information, because their own OS doesn't support one iPhone, multiple iCloud identities. Source: https://appleinsider.com/articles/26/08/03/confidential-appl... So yeah.

Most companies give you a company phone with a company iCloud account.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#56

Post by happymellon »

zombot wrote: post #37
dannyw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently Apple encourages their employees to use their personal iCloud accounts for company information, because their own OS doesn't support one iPhone, multiple iCloud identities. Source: https://appleinsider.com/articles/26/08/03/confidential-appl... So yeah.

So iOS is essentially unprofessional. A toy for those who have either no job or no private life. How does Android score in that respect?

You can have multiple users on a single device.

https://source.android.com/docs/devices/admin/multi-user

Either with a single local account that accesses multiple Google accounts, or multiple local accounts. Though this is device specific, it may be disabled by your manufacturer/provider.

As mentioned elsewhere though, an enrolled phone is an enrolled phone so corporate wiping will wipe the entire phone and not just the profile.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#57

Post by chneu »

efnx wrote: post #26

Is it normal for a company this big to make a public blog post like this with almost no introduction to what they’re on about? I would expect them to start out with something like Apple is suing us for yada yada yada, but instead it reads like the diary of a hurt teenager.

This reads like a mypillow CEO type post.

Its insane this is coming from a company with as much scope as openai. Scope may not be the right word.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#58

Post by chneu »

altmanaltman wrote: post #46
gr_norm wrote: post #10

Setting aside the presented evidence, it feels weird for somewhat emotionally charged complaining like this to go on an official company blog. Companies are generally pretty tight-lipped about active litigation outside court documents, right? This just seems a bit amateurish, down to the title. Is public opinion about this case so important to them?

Yeah this is the cloest a corporate company can get to drunk texting their ex at 3 am and reiterating how it wasn't their fault. But I mean its OpenAI, it loves drama

Haha omg what if someone at openai prompted a model to write this and the model could only come up with this unhinged version. It reads like a 3am manic text fest cuz that's what the model figures it should be.

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#59

Post by aenis »

prmoustache wrote: post #5

When I look at the imessage conversation, one thing strikes me: that guy looks to be using the same icloud account he used when working for Apple with OpenAI. Is he using his own personal account? Why do both Apple and OpenAI allow that in the first place, this look so amateur. I would have assumed each company would have opened a different account for him and locked him when leaving. Is it standard practice at both…

This is what gets people subpoena'd and their entirely private messages scrutinised. Happened to a lot of people, including a friend of mine who's affair became a matter of public record after his company was investigated for anti-trust issues. Super unprofessional and legally dangerous.

I keep two phones, one for work, another for private life, and also two laptops for the same reason. The support for multi-identity is very inconvenient on apple[1], and very poor with whatsapp, signal and, really, most apps except for Google's. Shame, really, considering how well funded Apple and Meta are, and how little effort would be needed to implement the 80% of what people need: the ability to chat using different identities, without touching the rest of the OS wiring.

[1] on macos, its possible to create users with multiple apple id associations, but not on iphone

Re: Apple is getting this wrong

#60

Post by Utilera »

int_x wrote: post #11

To me, this looks like OpenAI is terrified and tries to come out ahead of the public opinion to control the narrative. Such a shit company. They built their whole business model on stolen data and act surprised when another company has zero trust in them. Based on their track record this lawsuit is not unexpected at all.

Two things can be true: OpenAI can be an aggressive company with serious credibility problems, and Apple can still have handled this case carelessly
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