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AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

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61–70 of 189 posts

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#61
It completely unclear where this 1.65T is going to come from to pay the bill. Revenue from people buying AI doesn’t even come close to covering it, even with crazy aggressive assumptions about the cashflow that could be generated from that.

The Wall St vs Silicon Valley showdown that’s setting up here looks like it will be quite epic. If last week was any preview, get your popcorn ready.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#62

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

Can you convert that analogy to European?

first FIFA water break

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#63

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

Maybe inning 9 game 1 of the series.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#65
post #41
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet remains the biggest singular development of my entire life. The most valuable companies in the world are internet companies. Journalists have been eager to call AI "over" since 2022, and yet: - Models just got good at writing code this year - Models just got good at editing images last year - Models just got good at cinematic video this year This hasn't even played out. It hasn't even started. Why on ear…

People enjoy the narrative that AI is doomed. I am in the same mindset as you. I cannot see compute demand changing anytime soon.

But the incentive to produce that intelligence is so high, that many opportunities become practical to explore. And many of them show doing AI inference workloads at 1000x cheaper and with 1000x less power, and sometimes 1000x faster.

If any one of these happens, or two, or all three, then the loans for trillions will become worthless while the use of AI can explode. The relationship between cost and ai intelligence output need not be linear over time, which is absolutely what the people financing are assuming.

Personally, I think linear over 5 years is about right, but no longer than that.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#66

Hopefully the general public doesn’t get stuck with the ‘too big to fail’ bill .. again :(

I worry that all this talk about "China can't be allowed to beat the West on LLMs" is a setup to saddle the public with a bailout in the name of national security.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#67
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People enjoy the narrative that AI is doomed. I am in the same mindset as you. I cannot see compute demand changing anytime soon.

This is a straw man position. Who is saying AI is doomed? There were previous winters but the technology kept improving. What people are doubting is all the current hype around it. Stuff like AGI and the singularity being right around the corner with fully automated societies and robots dong all your chores for you. Rather than it being presented as productivity tool for enhancing human labor and activity, it's prese…

More precisely the mismatch in investment and debt and timelines. The people laid the fiber (if that is even an apt description) were not the ones who made money from that investment. If there is even some sort of mismatch in the investment timeline then that could mean all the current investors are wiped out and someone else will eventually profit from their work.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every crash is due to a black-swan event. Many crashes are due to causes with predictable reasons, but unpredictable timing.

You have any examples? Because all of the biggest and most famous crashes were events that only a very small minority of people ever saw coming. Tulips, 1929, Dotcom, Great Recession, 2010's Flash Crash - none of these were in the public discussion before they happened.

Michael Burry almost got wipe out if the bubble last just a bit longer. He started shorting way before the crash. He was lucky that he held long enough. There are many others see the same thing but just lost right before the end of the race.

That's why timing the crash is hard. The market has to agree with you but also at the right time

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#69

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

> As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down Sorry to break it to you but you are neither immune nor a bystander to the fortunes of AI going down. You are part of it all whether you like it or not.

you can 100% and totally be immune to it

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#70
The people who made money on fiber and railroads were the inheritors after the timeline mismatch bankrupted the original players who did the investment. Even if AI turns out to be everything it promises, you can mistime the investment and lose everything.
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