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AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

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21–30 of 189 posts

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#21

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

inning 9 of the money/hype train, i think it's still inning 3 of the overall technology.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#22

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

It is like being in a city where Edison wired up lights.. and people are like..well I guess electricity has played out! We have only begun to extract the value of commoditized intelligence. Sure there are arguments on local models and pricing power.. but I think we will be compute constrained for the near future.

Internet didn't disappear after the dotcom crash, but a lot of money did. This is what could happen here I think.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#23

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

Right - black swans are by definition things that the majority didn't see coming.

Ever since the 2008 housing crisis, people have been predicting the next bubble-burst/black-swan event.

The one that really crushed the markets was the one almost body saw coming: Covid-19.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#24

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

It is like being in a city where Edison wired up lights.. and people are like..well I guess electricity has played out! We have only begun to extract the value of commoditized intelligence. Sure there are arguments on local models and pricing power.. but I think we will be compute constrained for the near future.

It's like having a bunch of walmart sized pets.coms.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#25

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

It is like being in a city where Edison wired up lights.. and people are like..well I guess electricity has played out! We have only begun to extract the value of commoditized intelligence. Sure there are arguments on local models and pricing power.. but I think we will be compute constrained for the near future.

That doesn't preclude something like a dot-com crash. It also doesn't mean everything in the current hype cycle will come true either. Plenty of people still shop at physical stores, read printed materials, and actually don't like being stuck at home if they can help it.

Similarly, majority of people still don't 3D-print stuff they can get cheaply at Walmart or from Amazon. Or use VR/AR as their primary form of interaction.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#26
post #21

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

inning 9 of the money/hype train, i think it's still inning 3 of the overall technology.

That feels more right to me. Maybe inning 8 on money/hype.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#27
post #21

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

inning 9 of the money/hype train, i think it's still inning 3 of the overall technology.

Indeed, the internet is absolutely gonna be with us forever, but I’d hate to be the guy who bought Cisco stock in August of 2000. (It took 25 years to recover.)

Although at its peak, CSCO was up ~2500% in a 5-year period, whereas NVDA is “only” up ~1000% in a similar timeframe.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#28
post #12

Has anyone seen a definitive mathematical proof of this? I have seen countless articles and exposes about the hidden debt. These are incredibly sophisticated companies so presumably they wouldn’t let themselves get into a company ending bind. But what are the chances this is actually an MBS type situation where the system is truly overloaded and a few sacrificial lambs are needed?

> Has anyone seen a definitive mathematical proof of this? I have seen countless articles and exposes about the hidden debt. There's an old WSB saying: the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. The AI craze is that but on 'roids. > These are incredibly sophisticated companies so presumably they wouldn’t let themselves get into a company ending bind. The problem is, company C-levels don't ca…

WSB? Keynes said that…

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#29
post #12

Has anyone seen a definitive mathematical proof of this? I have seen countless articles and exposes about the hidden debt. These are incredibly sophisticated companies so presumably they wouldn’t let themselves get into a company ending bind. But what are the chances this is actually an MBS type situation where the system is truly overloaded and a few sacrificial lambs are needed?

> I have seen countless articles and exposes about the hidden debt.

eh trolling for clicks. It's just not on the balance sheet (if i have my terms correct) so you have to look in a different report to find the numbers. If it was truly hidden then discovery of the debt would trigger lawsuits from investors. Major investors know about it already that's why no one is getting upset over it except for laymen. btw, laymen in the stock market (retail investors) just serve as red meat or cannon fodder for actual traders with real money and real information.

edit: there will def. be significant winners and losers, the stakes are very high and the dollar amounts are very large.

Re: AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T

#30

As a bystander directly immune to the fortunes of AI going up or down, it does feel like there are a lot more people thinking this is inning 9 of the LLM story than there are people thinking it's inning 3. Which makes it tempting to believe it's probably closer to inning 3.

Right - black swans are by definition things that the majority didn't see coming. Ever since the 2008 housing crisis, people have been predicting the next bubble-burst/black-swan event. The one that really crushed the markets was the one almost body saw coming: Covid-19.

Not every crash is due to a black-swan event. Many crashes are due to causes with predictable reasons, but unpredictable timing.
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