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Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

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Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#171

Post by Epa095 »

mikaeluman wrote: post #161
softwaredoug wrote: post #107

The next frontier will be meat consumption. Particularly red meat. A single 1/4 beef hamburger emits 7-12 kg of carbon[1]. Compared to ~1.5kg of carbon driving your car 3 miles[2]. Not telling you to go full vegetarian, but I'm personally far less interested in a beef product unless you're going to guarantee its an extremely expert prepared steak. Most beef is mediocre. 1 - https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-im…

Meat, and red meat, is truly a miracle food. Dense in nutrients, satiating and of course tasty. Nature needs animals as well. In fact it is essential. Agricultural reform or innovation is certainly an avenue to explore; but this strange obsession with "stop eating red meat" is a bit too much.

But you just read an argument, and then completely ignored it, instead started brining up other aspects of red meat.

That most red meat is very co2 expensive compared to getting the proteins from other sources is a relevant argument for many of us, and not a particularly 'strange obsession' for those of us caring about reducing our co2 footprint.

Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#172

Post by inigyou »

plastic-enjoyer wrote: post #152
inigyou wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing nothing only works as long as there's someone else to produce things for you who wants to produce things for you. It's been China, but only by accident. China is not far away from deindustrializing and then we all suffer. It's a political choice by our own politicians.

> China is not far away from deindustrializing and then we all suffer. How? China is actively moving up the value chain, into EVs, batteries, semiconductors, advanced manufacturing, etc. China is not abandoning industry. > It's a political choice by our own politicians. No, it's mostly how our economic system, how capitalism works. Production goes where production is cheap. You’ll never be able to produce goods in Ge…

Economic system choice is a political choice...

Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#173

Post by inigyou »

RandomLensman wrote: post #144
inigyou wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not directly invading, but there was a strong possibility of Germany supporting the Russian invasion, just as they're doing with the invasion of Iran.

There was absolutely no possibility for Germany supporting the Russian invasion.

Well I mean they already did support the invasion for a while by buying their gas.

Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#174

Post by logicchains »

grunder_advice wrote: post #146
softwaredoug wrote: post #107

The next frontier will be meat consumption. Particularly red meat. A single 1/4 beef hamburger emits 7-12 kg of carbon[1]. Compared to ~1.5kg of carbon driving your car 3 miles[2]. Not telling you to go full vegetarian, but I'm personally far less interested in a beef product unless you're going to guarantee its an extremely expert prepared steak. Most beef is mediocre. 1 - https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-im…

Beef is already too expensive for most people. Americans are probably the exception but I can assure you that most Europeans do not have beef heavy diets. Even culturally, pork (and now chicken) were the proteins of choice.

>Beef is already too expensive for most people. Americans are probably the exception but I can assure you that most Europeans do not have beef heavy diets.

Beef is too expensive for many Europeans because GDP per capita/standards of living are declining in many European countries. People in East Asia, the Middle East, Oceania and South America still eat plenty of beef too.

Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#175

Post by Abimelex »

moooo99 wrote: post #136
bjourne wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of any major German industry for which energy costs amounts to even 10% of the labor costs? It's a rhetorical question intended to engage the common sense pathways of your cognitive system.

Realistically, without running the numbers, only few industries come to mind that may come close. Chemical manufacturing, steel production and maybe glass production as well. For the remainder, the wage costs - more specifically - the overhead costs are the true killer. If you want to pay someone 80k a year in Germany, the actual costs are closer to 100k a year in purely salary overhead costs, not to mention the othe…

it's less more around 94k - IMHO the overhead is the bureaucracy that basically forces you to employ a large amount of non-productive workforce in larger companies just for compliance topics.

Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#176

Post by igl »

inigyou wrote: post #124
RandomLensman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany joining the Russian invasion was never anything even remotely in the option space at all - utterly inconceivable in 2022. (Not aware of Russia seeking any such support there either.)

Probably not directly invading, but there was a strong possibility of Germany supporting the Russian invasion, just as they're doing with the invasion of Iran.

A strong possibility? Where do you get your news from?

Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#177

Post by Paradigma11 »

pydry wrote: post #64
RandomLensman wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany cut off Russian gas? Gazprom suspended supply indefinitely via NS1 before it was destroyed.

Canada sanctioned the repaired gas turbines needed to operate NS1. They flip flopped on their decision some time later though. This was spun as a Russian decision, but western countries were clearly trying to force Germany's hand.

If you take a look at ng prices you will see that the prices went up more than half a year before Russias invasion of Ukraine: https://www.macrotrends.net/3235/eu-natural-gas-prices The reason for this was because Gazprom stopped supplying the spot market and also bought storage capacity and kept it empty. All of that only made sense after the invasion to better blackmail Europe. It was their bad luck that China allowed them to attack only after the Olympics which took most of the force out of that blow. Anyway there was no sane way to continue this business relationship.

Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#178

Post by softwaredoug »

puchatek wrote: post #158
softwaredoug wrote: post #107

The next frontier will be meat consumption. Particularly red meat. A single 1/4 beef hamburger emits 7-12 kg of carbon[1]. Compared to ~1.5kg of carbon driving your car 3 miles[2]. Not telling you to go full vegetarian, but I'm personally far less interested in a beef product unless you're going to guarantee its an extremely expert prepared steak. Most beef is mediocre. 1 - https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-im…

Going vegetarian would only cut it if you stayed clear of dairy. Gram for gram it's better to eat chicken than cheese for the climate.

My research seems to indicate its about on-par with chicken. IE a chicken filet is about the carbon impact of 8oz of milk.

And it seems here its about 1/4 carbon per kg of food as beef:

https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food

Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#179

Post by alpineman »

softwaredoug wrote: post #107

The next frontier will be meat consumption. Particularly red meat. A single 1/4 beef hamburger emits 7-12 kg of carbon[1]. Compared to ~1.5kg of carbon driving your car 3 miles[2]. Not telling you to go full vegetarian, but I'm personally far less interested in a beef product unless you're going to guarantee its an extremely expert prepared steak. Most beef is mediocre. 1 - https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-im…

Yeah, plus the ethical angle. It's a bit ridiculous that we have people researching the 'theoretical ethical treatment of LLMs' when we are doing such awful things to animals on a massive scale.

We have dogs and cats as pets and we eat cows and pigs (in Western countries). As if cows and pigs didn't also have personalities, memories, parental bonds, the ability to feel pain. It's a mass wilful ignorance.

What's the difference between us and animals? I would argue that it's our ability to take ethical decisions and not inflict suffering even if it goes against our base instincts.

Re: Wind and solar overtake fossil fuels in Germany for the first time

#180

Post by puchatek »

VorpalWay wrote: post #98
Helmut10001 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like there is a causality here. I would be careful. German GDP is declining for other reasons, not for their commitment to renwables. Also, by all measures, living in Germany still means you get one of the most comfortable, secure and free lives on earth. I wouldn't give up on Germany so fast. They still know how to work and often work, even if there is no reason to work (i.e looking at their curren…

Arguably Sweden (and possibly the other Nordic countries too) are even better places to live (or at least equally good). Well, as long as you can stand the climate and the lack of sun in the winter. We have right to roam in nature here, which is quite rare across the world (and even compared to the few other countries that have something similar, the Swedish variant is stronger). I wouldn't trade that for anything.

I don't think the comment above meant to say there's nothing better than Germany. Instead the claim was that 1) Germany's decline is not due to renewables and 2) despite the decline it's still a pretty good place to live.
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