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Andy Pavlo joins ClickHouse to establish ClickHouse Labs

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Re: Andy Pavlo joins ClickHouse to establish ClickHouse Labs

#31
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd ascribe "deep tech" to anything that you can reasonably get a PhD in and have it not be unusual. There are dozens of academic conferences on DBs pushing the frontier forward.

I'm very excited to keep pushing the frontiers of deep tech art history, just as soon as I complete my $150M Series B raise.

They use cyclotrons with some regularity and advanced imaging techniques.

Re: Andy Pavlo joins ClickHouse to establish ClickHouse Labs

#32
post #28

I'm very curious about the convergence of the best in class fast OLAP products (StarRocks, ClickHouse) with Trino. It sounds like everybody is going for decoupled compute/storage, using S3 or similar as the storage layer, and thus forgoing colocated joins (ok I know ClickHouse joins suck)... So what does this mean for ingestion (and indexing)? Iceberg V3? Paimon? Bespoke ingestion through the DB engine to do the inde…

Clickhouse joins have been improving almost every month for the last couple of years. Maybe they still suck but a lot less

Re: Andy Pavlo joins ClickHouse to establish ClickHouse Labs

#33
post #4

> The goal of ClickHouse Labs is to establish a best-in-class industry research organization focused on databases. It will not operate as an isolated research organization that throws ideas over the wall to engineering. Instead, we will work closely with ClickHouse engineers, customers, collaborators, and industry partners to develop and disseminate new ideas that keep ClickHouse at the bleeding edge. This is cool, t…

What do you mean? There’s plenty of high impact research on databases happening in academia. (Including, for example, Andy’s group at CMU)

Also keep in mind that the part you quoted is partially marketing copy.

Re: Andy Pavlo joins ClickHouse to establish ClickHouse Labs

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The databases we use today in production have severe limitations and are not even close to what is theoretically possible. Many traditional parts of a database (indexing, caching, scheduling, et al) are AI-complete algorithm problems. Entire sub-classes of database (e.g. graph or spatial) famously have persistently poor scalability and performance because of open questions in the foundational computer science. Just t…

Could you explain what practical research there is to be done? The heavy theory I know does not seem to be very useful in practice. Optimal join algorithms, Yannakakis adjacent algorithms, tree decomposition of queries all seem to be worse than well implemented naive algorithms. But maybe the implementations of the new algorithms just are not good? I really don’t know.

There is research as of last year which brings unoptimised impls of those join algorithms to “on-par” with optimized non-optimal industry impls.

There’s still research to be done in optimizing these algorithms in both theory and practice.

Re: Andy Pavlo joins ClickHouse to establish ClickHouse Labs

#35
post #19

Always enjoyed his lecture series from CMU, hopefully those continue in a sponsored format from Clickhouse.

They will continue. New seminar series starts next month (announcement coming this week).

Will you maintain a connection to CMU? If so, what will you continue doing and at what percent of effort?

Re: Andy Pavlo joins ClickHouse to establish ClickHouse Labs

#36
post #28

I'm very curious about the convergence of the best in class fast OLAP products (StarRocks, ClickHouse) with Trino. It sounds like everybody is going for decoupled compute/storage, using S3 or similar as the storage layer, and thus forgoing colocated joins (ok I know ClickHouse joins suck)... So what does this mean for ingestion (and indexing)? Iceberg V3? Paimon? Bespoke ingestion through the DB engine to do the inde…

It's also interesting how Clickhouse / Starrocks can now also act as a query planner and executor on top of non-native formats (ex. Iceberg).

I assume the native formats will always be faster / more optimized but the need for Trino as a separate executor while running either of these databases seems to be close to gone.

Re: Andy Pavlo joins ClickHouse to establish ClickHouse Labs

#37
post #4

> The goal of ClickHouse Labs is to establish a best-in-class industry research organization focused on databases. It will not operate as an isolated research organization that throws ideas over the wall to engineering. Instead, we will work closely with ClickHouse engineers, customers, collaborators, and industry partners to develop and disseminate new ideas that keep ClickHouse at the bleeding edge. This is cool, t…

What do you mean? There’s plenty of high impact research on databases happening in academia. (Including, for example, Andy’s group at CMU) Also keep in mind that the part you quoted is partially marketing copy.

I take this announcement to mean he is leaving. So he's a perfect example

Re: Andy Pavlo joins ClickHouse to establish ClickHouse Labs

#38
post #28

I'm very curious about the convergence of the best in class fast OLAP products (StarRocks, ClickHouse) with Trino. It sounds like everybody is going for decoupled compute/storage, using S3 or similar as the storage layer, and thus forgoing colocated joins (ok I know ClickHouse joins suck)... So what does this mean for ingestion (and indexing)? Iceberg V3? Paimon? Bespoke ingestion through the DB engine to do the inde…

I’ve historically read this as ‘open format compatible’ but ‘native preferred’ - where this opens up market space and dev velocity - but it’ll be interesting to see if native storage differentiation gets dumped entirely. It just seems like ‘fork and optimize for our engine’ would always be tempting enough that you’d want a native play for when you don’t need the decoupling.
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