Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 136 posts

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#101

Post by [deleted] »

trymas wrote: post #70
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apartheid was bad. Immigration enforcement isn't bad... it's what alot of people want. These people feel as if they are (in part, collective) owners of the country, and owning it they want to exclude people who do not own it. The same way, I might add, that you or I want to exclude squatters from our homes, and the same way (I assume) most of us don't invite hobos in to sleep in our beds. If you say that's bad too an…

Which part of “immigration enforcement” is executing citizens in broad daylight?

[deleted]

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#102

Post by [deleted] »

jackmott42 wrote: post #16
kardianos wrote: post #13

They don't mention this, but one major reason for this is to validate claims of family units and prevent trafficking. This is, I suspect, a good thing. The article never states any downsides, other then nebulous claims. Yes, DNA is like finger printing someone, which is routinely done for arrests, but has the benefit of assisting in claims of family relations, which is at the heart of many ICE concerns.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#103

Post by mathisfun123 »

wang_li wrote: post #96
mathisfun123 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people feel as if they are (in part, collective) owners of the country But they don't in absolutely any sense (legal, moral, philosophical) own the country. And especially they do not "own" the culture (because that's actually impossible). So all you have is jingoism propping up this entire notion.

Citizens most certainly do own the country. It comes directly from the fact that all government power is granted to it by the people. >That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed To the extent that the land claimed as part of the United States belongs to and is controlled by the United States, it belongs to the people. People certainly…

> Citizens most certainly do own the country.. To the extent that the land claimed as part of the United States belongs to and is controlled by the United States, it belongs to the people.

Citizens are the beneficiaries of a trust. The land is held in a trust. That is not the same thing as ownership. Think about it: in some other countries you can't even outright own land. That should indicate to you that your notion is overly facile.

The underwriters of that trust are all of the current citizens and more importantly all those that came before. In the USA that includes indigeneous peoples, slaves, naturalized immigrants, etc.

> People certainly own an interest in the culture and have a right to keep it from changing too much too quickly and to fight and refuse the changing of certain aspects of that culture.

Lol what does it mean to "own an interest"? I own an interest in blue spotted blue spotted stingrays - what rights does that bestow upon me with respect to the stingrays? None.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#104

Post by mathisfun123 »

wildfireday2 wrote: post #93
pavlov wrote: post #83

There’s a reason why Germany has extremely strict laws about how personally identifying information can be collected and stored. America has yet to learn the same lesson, but has been on the road there for a decade now.

[flagged]

random capitalization... is this trump's hn alt lol?

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#105

Post by kardianos »

jackb4040 wrote: post #42
kardianos wrote: post #13

They don't mention this, but one major reason for this is to validate claims of family units and prevent trafficking. This is, I suspect, a good thing. The article never states any downsides, other then nebulous claims. Yes, DNA is like finger printing someone, which is routinely done for arrests, but has the benefit of assisting in claims of family relations, which is at the heart of many ICE concerns.

They don't mention this, but one major reason for apartheid's Bantustan policy was to recognize distinct homelands and preserve cultural communities. This is, I suspect, a good thing. The article never states any downsides, other than nebulous claims. Yes, assigning people to ethnic homelands is like any other government record-keeping, which is routinely done, but has the benefit of assisting in claims of separate n…

Dude. Trafficking minors is bad. DNA literally can help establish family relationships.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#106

Post by kardianos »

trymas wrote: post #70
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apartheid was bad. Immigration enforcement isn't bad... it's what alot of people want. These people feel as if they are (in part, collective) owners of the country, and owning it they want to exclude people who do not own it. The same way, I might add, that you or I want to exclude squatters from our homes, and the same way (I assume) most of us don't invite hobos in to sleep in our beds. If you say that's bad too an…

Which part of “immigration enforcement” is executing citizens in broad daylight?

[flagged]

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#108

Post by wildfireday2 »

fourspacetabs wrote: post #94
wildfireday2 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> foreign CRIMINALS Subheadline of the article: > Now hundreds of thousands of people never convicted of a crime are in an FBI criminal database forever. 7th paragraph of the article: > The vast majority of people in ICE custody have no criminal conviction, and residing in the US undocumented is typically a civil, not criminal, offense.

The first real example it opens with, is a criminal. For the rest of ICE detainees, don’t care. Again, we have 10s of millions of backlog of illegal entries, overstays, visa violations etc. No one knows how many 10s of millions, but it is eight figures worth. Most of the illegal entries we have essentially no way of getting or knowing who they are. Collecting their biometrics to include DNA that might be found at future crime scenes is a bare minimum. Likewise as others have pointed out collecting family members or children’s DNA is essential for dealing with rampant trafficking.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#109

Post by elevation »

RajT88 wrote: post #44
voidUpdate wrote: post #5

IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information, then I feel like people having a DNA test at birth or on becoming a citizen could be useful, both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") and from a policing standpoint ("we found DNA on this woman's clothes and immediately matched it to this man who hasn't committed a crime before" or "w…

When I was a kid, I recall police coming to our classrooms to fingerprint us. The whole school got fingerprinted. The idea was to help police if kids went missing. Whether or not you believe that justification ("Stranger Danger" was a scare at the time), I can promise you those fingerprints were used to put people in jail later.

> those fingerprints were used

A detective in a ~150K pop. municipality told me that while they might dust for prints, they rarely use them in court because computer matches are very noisy and actually entering prints as evidence in court requires an expensive expert witness to evaluate and attest to a supposed match. The prosecutor can't afford the fees for every case, so a lot of fingerprint evidence goes unused.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#110

Post by lenerdenator »

crote wrote: post #63
lenerdenator wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Slightly biased because I'm a european, but I think a european country is more likely to be trust-able with a country-wide DNA database. There were multiple governments operating pervasive surveillance states and using them to punish dissidents on the western part of European continent well within a human lifetime from today. What makes you think that won't happen again, this time in a completely iron-clad way?

> well within a human lifetime from today You can just say "at this very moment".

Well, that's true, but it's not as on-the-nose as, say, Francisco Franco did it.
Post reply on HN