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Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

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Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#141

Post by rsolva »

geysersam wrote: post #55
rsolva wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fatty fish accumulates heavy metales and other unhealthy components and pregnant women in Norway is told to limit the intake. But it has been controversial, the industry is not happy with these recommendations!

Can you link to those recommendations? I can't find anything on the Norwegian public health sites specifically about farmed salmon.

It seems public health recommendations where walked back after the controversy in the early 2010's, so it is not an official recommendation anymore.

Here are some of the studies and debates from back then:

- Chronic Consumption of Farmed Salmon Containing Persistent Organic Pollutants Causes Insulin Resistance and Obesity in Mice (2011): https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

- Are environmental pollutants in the Norwegian diet harmful to children?: https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2017/02/perspectives/are-environm...

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#142

Post by cassepipe »

jurgenburgen wrote: post #131
wasfgwp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because fish farms are generally stationary?

Is it not possible to build a floating farm in international waters?

The point is that a pen far away from the land might not be very practical/much more expensive to take care of

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#143

Post by SenHeng »

gramie wrote: post #35

Recently there has been a push to farm "dry-land" salmon. In other words, the salmon live in large tanks on land, rather than in pens in the sea. At the moment a company is trying to start one of these close to me. Some local people are opposed, some are supportive, but most just want more objective study and information (i.e. not performed/paid for by the company itself). The devil may be in the implementation, but…

Nagano, Japan does land farming of salmon. It's a landlocked state far from any coast so the farming is done in inland rivers and lakes. It's a crossbreed of rainbow trout and brown trout that produces a sterile hybrid called Shinshu Salmon so I don't know if it's actually real salmon, but it tastes like the same thing.

https://www.pref.nagano.lg.jp/suisan/jisseki/salmon/english....

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#144

Post by eth0up »

fragmede wrote: post #92
eth0up wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, allow me to make subtle, but not insubstantial correction: "“a hamburger is healthier than salmon”" to “a hamburger is healthier than farm raised salmon” That holds closer to the actual context. I admit, the ultimate truth of whether a burger is technically healthier than farm raised salmon, is questionable. In my opinion, in either direction, but will concede that. That said, had the parent stated that…

Have you been to Mr. Charlie's?

If it's a real thing, no. I have been trying for far too long to stay vegetarian (ethical, not health), and doing poorly. I also don't do much dining. There was a 'fancy' burger place around FL for a while, named Square One (1?), but I was never able to evaluate it.

When I can afford it, I will do a NASA Food Pill marathon. But they're not cheap.

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#145

Post by yondys »

It's encouraging that even the powerful lobbyists in Norway are discussing the effects their field has in the environment:

> Krister Hoaas from the industry lobby group says that Norway is pursuing sustainable growth.

>"We have to have growth within the limits that nature can cope with in a good way, and that would imply introduction of a lot of different production methods," Hoaas says.

I like to see how much more nuanced and reasonable the discussions between opposing parties are in the Nordic countries when compared to most of the rest of the world.

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#146

Post by [deleted] »

stymaar wrote: post #111
wahern wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can farm fish outside territorial and exclusive economic zone waters. But in any event China has substantial EEZ waters: https://www.marineregions.org/gazetteer.php?p=details&id=848... Taiwan isn't much of a hindrance. For one thing, the Strait is 100 miles wide. And China's coast is much, much longer than Taiwan.

Check your map: with the exception a part of South China Sea that is a point of contention with Vietnam, China only has access to shallow water (For instance East China Sea is ~300m deep, which isn't significantly deeper than Norvay's Fjords). On the contrary the eastern coast of Taiwan has access to very deep sea though. (This is a well known geostrategic fact, as the small depths of Chinese water are a big weakness…

[deleted]

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#147

Post by pvaldes »

bronlund wrote: post #16
onesandofgrain wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astaxanthin for the color fair. What about the salmon is bad for pregnant women?

Growth hormones. It’s better now than some years ago, but still. Some claim the do not use them at all. And they use a lot of antibiotics. And there is some accumulation of dioxins and PCBs in the fat due to the feed, but this has also been approved somewhat.

> Growth hormones

Would be antieconomic and is useless. But If you have recent data about this, please show the data. Take in mind that human growth hormones don't work in fishes if I remember correctly.

> And they use a lot of antibiotics.

Antibiotics like, for example?

Terrestrial farms are totally different than sea farms. I don't think that Norwegians use more antibiotics than Thailand Panga farmers. Crustacicides, I'm sure that they use it, but "lots of" antibiotics claim... I'm sceptical about this.

Comparing traditional aquaculture with Marine aquaculture is like saying that an ox chart and an electric vehicle are the same thing.

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#148

Post by mrguyorama »

rsolva wrote: post #22
onesandofgrain wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astaxanthin for the color fair. What about the salmon is bad for pregnant women?

Fatty fish accumulates heavy metales and other unhealthy components and pregnant women in Norway is told to limit the intake. But it has been controversial, the industry is not happy with these recommendations!

The US FDA meanwhile maintains this page:

https://www.fda.gov/food/consumers/advice-about-eating-fish

It tells you why a pregnant woman should eat some fish, and which fish are safest.

The metal in fish is a concern, but can be mitigated fairly well.

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#149

Post by giglamesh »

rf15 wrote: post #14
throwup238 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t eat wild cows anymore because aurochs went extinct in the last few hundred years. People still eat junglefowl (ancestor of chickens) and wild boar (pig), but in the developed world domesticated animals are usually both cheaper and tastier.

Addendum: People will probably read that as "au-rochs" (and wikipedia's IPA sure isn't helping here), but it's actually split "aur-ochs". (that latter part being the foundation for the current word 'ox') Source: studied german enough to recognise that word root

Like ur ox as in primitive or original ox?

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#150

Post by ionwake »

giov4 wrote: post #128
ionwake wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you use AI for this. What on earth are you going on about? My first suspicion was when you started taking about metals. Bro salmon are euryhaline. You have no idea if its viable and profitable to remove certain organs, and its based on the incorrect premise that the fish have the metals in them, the ONE type of fish that has the lowest concentration of metals in existence. You literally picked the worst possible…

where do you see AI input? for everybody, euryhaline: "Euryhaline organisms are able to adapt to a wide range of salinities." how is that related to the heavy metals? and what's the reason behind attacking the post topic based on that? osmoregulation anything to do with it or what? I still find the post useful and interesting, and I took organ modification as a possible threat to hiding toxicity instead. It would hav…

its clearly a rambling splurge of random ideas done with no research in a mature industry, where he even berated the salmon industry for not implementing his no brainer ideas. I gave enough info for you to do more research man Im not going to explain why salmon have less mercury just google it.

However I take your point I could have taken more time to explain certain points.

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