I find it disturbing that this article has been written in 2012. While I was reading it I really thought that it was at least 10 years old. Computer science researchers are doing actual mathematics, and they are clearly more in what the article calls "Lisp school" than the "Fortran school". Research in functional programming is mostly mathematics. Lambda calculi (which was originally not developed to be a programming…
The Mathematical Hacker
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Re: The Mathematical Hacker
#12I find it disturbing that this article has been written in 2012. While I was reading it I really thought that it was at least 10 years old. Computer science researchers are doing actual mathematics, and they are clearly more in what the article calls "Lisp school" than the "Fortran school". Research in functional programming is mostly mathematics. Lambda calculi (which was originally not developed to be a programming…
I feel somewhat similarly to you about the wonderful influx of math via the functional languages these days. I think this article misses the boat on this one when the author considers that lisp hackers avoid math by seeking abstraction---when really there's a lot of math there too.
Re: The Mathematical Hacker
#13You don't need to be good to program. You need to be exceptional to do math. Most programmers aren't that good at what they do, and I think they should focus on their craft. I struggle to explain to my colleagues who make 100k that they need to do memory tiling: or that their loop doesn't vectorized. Changing a float from a double in a BFGS is 2 days of work for these people. Let the chosen few do math.
And then you wonder why an average person hates/is scared of math.
Re: The Mathematical Hacker
#14I find it disturbing that this article has been written in 2012. While I was reading it I really thought that it was at least 10 years old. Computer science researchers are doing actual mathematics, and they are clearly more in what the article calls "Lisp school" than the "Fortran school". Research in functional programming is mostly mathematics. Lambda calculi (which was originally not developed to be a programming…
So I'm pleased if such research is going on, because back then I went deliberately looking for it and couldn't find it.
Re: The Mathematical Hacker
#15"One way to read the history of business in the twentieth century is a series of transformations whereby industries that 'didn't need math' suddenly found themselves critically depending on it." This is a significant understatement. It also summarizes the history of business in the 19th century and even earlier. See, for example: steam power, metallurgy, bridge building, chemical industries, and electricity.
Not all hackers miss Miller's point. One of Zed Shaw's older rants "Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All" comes to mind[1].
Perhaps I'm missing some intended irony, but Miller's polemics on Lisp and his reverence for Fortran feel overdone & unnecessarily narrow. Coders who buy into Miller's notions can join the "Fortran School" by learning something along the lines of R programming (lots of fun, functional, array-based, and adept at statistics) or J (compression and austere beauty that only a mathematician could love) or any number of other languages that have not shunned math. Of course, calculus, statistics, and linear algebra also required. For the university trained, brush up (or curse your university for not requiring you to learn these subjects). For the autodidacts among us, the likes of Coursera and Sal Khan are indispensable.
Re: The Mathematical Hacker
#16Re: The Mathematical Hacker
#17They seem to agree on one thing: from a workaday perspective, math is essentially useless. I would love it if someone had resources on how mathematics could actually be used as a tool by programmers. What kind of problems would mathematics as a tool help me solve better/faster/more efficiently than the other tools in my programmer toolbox?
Re: The Mathematical Hacker
#18If you look at the very early days of computing, you tended to find three types of degree/backgrounds: Electrical Engineering, Mathematics, and Philosophy. The double E is obvious: building the kit. The other two, the potentially Left Brained or Right Brained approach to programming. All three of them have one thing in common: A structured, _logical_ approach to solving problems.
If there is anything to lament, it is that we still have the tug of war between left and right brain approaches. The reality is that one size, indeed, does not fit all. We should accept that and move on to getting the work appropriately done.
Re: The Mathematical Hacker
#19Isn't this wrong? I don't think pow is computed in constant time.
Re: The Mathematical Hacker
#20I find it disturbing that this article has been written in 2012. While I was reading it I really thought that it was at least 10 years old. Computer science researchers are doing actual mathematics, and they are clearly more in what the article calls "Lisp school" than the "Fortran school". Research in functional programming is mostly mathematics. Lambda calculi (which was originally not developed to be a programming…