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The Mathematical Hacker

evanmiller.org

11–20 of 135 posts

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#11
post #6

I find it disturbing that this article has been written in 2012. While I was reading it I really thought that it was at least 10 years old. Computer science researchers are doing actual mathematics, and they are clearly more in what the article calls "Lisp school" than the "Fortran school". Research in functional programming is mostly mathematics. Lambda calculi (which was originally not developed to be a programming…

I feel somewhat similarly to you about the wonderful influx of math via the functional languages these days. I think this article misses the boat on this one when the author considers that lisp hackers avoid math by seeking abstraction---when really there's a lot of math there too.

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#12
post #11
post #6

I find it disturbing that this article has been written in 2012. While I was reading it I really thought that it was at least 10 years old. Computer science researchers are doing actual mathematics, and they are clearly more in what the article calls "Lisp school" than the "Fortran school". Research in functional programming is mostly mathematics. Lambda calculi (which was originally not developed to be a programming…

I feel somewhat similarly to you about the wonderful influx of math via the functional languages these days. I think this article misses the boat on this one when the author considers that lisp hackers avoid math by seeking abstraction---when really there's a lot of math there too.

Yes, there's lots of great math in programming languages research (it's my field, and I quite enjoy it), but I think the point was that it's only being used to solve "our" problems, not the domain problems that people fund CS to solve.

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#13

You don't need to be good to program. You need to be exceptional to do math. Most programmers aren't that good at what they do, and I think they should focus on their craft. I struggle to explain to my colleagues who make 100k that they need to do memory tiling: or that their loop doesn't vectorized. Changing a float from a double in a BFGS is 2 days of work for these people. Let the chosen few do math.

>Let the chosen few do math

And then you wonder why an average person hates/is scared of math.

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#14
post #6

I find it disturbing that this article has been written in 2012. While I was reading it I really thought that it was at least 10 years old. Computer science researchers are doing actual mathematics, and they are clearly more in what the article calls "Lisp school" than the "Fortran school". Research in functional programming is mostly mathematics. Lambda calculi (which was originally not developed to be a programming…

At university in 2005 I studied Mathematics and Computer Science in my first year, hoping for a path into theoretical computer science (e.g. complexity theory). I couldn't find one; mathematics had its discrete side, and made use of programs in many areas, but was uninterested in the theory of computation; computer science was mostly java training (I chose mathematics).

So I'm pleased if such research is going on, because back then I went deliberately looking for it and couldn't find it.

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#15
As I see it, an essential point of "Data Science" is to finally introduce mathematical awareness to the world of programming. I welcome our newly arriving & refreshingly numerate overlords!

"One way to read the history of business in the twentieth century is a series of transformations whereby industries that 'didn't need math' suddenly found themselves critically depending on it." This is a significant understatement. It also summarizes the history of business in the 19th century and even earlier. See, for example: steam power, metallurgy, bridge building, chemical industries, and electricity.

Not all hackers miss Miller's point. One of Zed Shaw's older rants "Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All" comes to mind[1].

Perhaps I'm missing some intended irony, but Miller's polemics on Lisp and his reverence for Fortran feel overdone & unnecessarily narrow. Coders who buy into Miller's notions can join the "Fortran School" by learning something along the lines of R programming (lots of fun, functional, array-based, and adept at statistics) or J (compression and austere beauty that only a mathematician could love) or any number of other languages that have not shunned math. Of course, calculus, statistics, and linear algebra also required. For the university trained, brush up (or curse your university for not requiring you to learn these subjects). For the autodidacts among us, the likes of Coursera and Sal Khan are indispensable.

[1] http://zedshaw.com/essays/programmer_stats.html

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#16
I've taken some mathematics and logic courses at a university level, and the thing I took from those experiences and apply everyday is the reasoning and proof structuring. Struggling through and coming to something of an understanding of the concepts of analysis (calculus) and algebra were a pivotal point in my intellectual development. As somebody for whom math has never come easily (and still doesn't), but for whom the beauty and wonder of it all was still enchanting, I'd heartily encourage any and everyone to learn some higher maths in detail. The specific results may not always be applicable day to day, but the way of thinking will stay with you. Good luck!!

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#17

They seem to agree on one thing: from a workaday perspective, math is essentially useless. I would love it if someone had resources on how mathematics could actually be used as a tool by programmers. What kind of problems would mathematics as a tool help me solve better/faster/more efficiently than the other tools in my programmer toolbox?

There are plenty. The analysis of basic algorithms involve math (e.g. QuickSort, binary search, etc). Programming a user friendly website can involve advanced mathematics, for example you want to recommend to your users a product that might interest them (Collaborative Filtering)

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#18
While an interesting read, it struck me as an odd, we've taken the wrong fork, nostalgia piece.

If you look at the very early days of computing, you tended to find three types of degree/backgrounds: Electrical Engineering, Mathematics, and Philosophy. The double E is obvious: building the kit. The other two, the potentially Left Brained or Right Brained approach to programming. All three of them have one thing in common: A structured, _logical_ approach to solving problems.

If there is anything to lament, it is that we still have the tug of war between left and right brain approaches. The reality is that one size, indeed, does not fit all. We should accept that and move on to getting the work appropriately done.

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#19
"Despite the aesthetic virtues ascribed to functional programming, I find the preceding solutions to be more beautiful than their recursive counterparts. They run in constant (rather than linear) time, and they are easily adapted to work with non-integer inputs."

Isn't this wrong? I don't think pow is computed in constant time.

Re: The Mathematical Hacker

#20
post #6

I find it disturbing that this article has been written in 2012. While I was reading it I really thought that it was at least 10 years old. Computer science researchers are doing actual mathematics, and they are clearly more in what the article calls "Lisp school" than the "Fortran school". Research in functional programming is mostly mathematics. Lambda calculi (which was originally not developed to be a programming…

Ironically, though, FP is perhaps the worst programming paradigm for actually performing numerical computations.
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