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More German than many Germans

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Re: More German than many Germans

#251

Post by dathinab »

akie wrote: post #224
bspinner wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would like to hear your thoughts on why that is the case.

I'm also a foreigner in Berlin, and my guess is twofold: 1. Their German isn't good enough, which limits the pool of people you can connect to 2. They only or mostly hang out in the expat-scene, which limits the pool of people you can connect to

no, it's the Berlin experience, even for many Germans

1. speaking German doesn't matter too much in Berlin, except older "Berlin Berlins" most people speak conversational English. I have even seen cases of _all_ personal in a caffe not speaking German..., more then once.

2. Over half the people in Berlin are "expat-like": ~20% of people in Berlin are not from Germany, 30-40% or so are not from Berlin and only there fro some years/decades to study or similar. And the distribution isn't uniform across Berlins, i.e. the areas you are most likely to end up as an (actual) expat (or similar) are the ones with way higher ratios. Like if you connect someone in such a area (weather physical or area-of-life) it's actually surprising if that person if "from" Berlin. Like you as a person "from" Berlin are more a special case then idk. someone from Poland ;).

Re: More German than many Germans

#252

Post by cicko »

rockyj wrote: post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

It is because of you guys, who love rules so much, that the poor Germans get such a bad reputation. ;)

Re: More German than many Germans

#253

Post by cicko »

usuaof wrote: post #203
ido wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion (immigrant for the 2nd time, currently in Germany since 2013- so I've lived in 3 countries when counting my native one): Basically, all rich/"western" countries are pretty decent. Some better than other, but they're all 'ok' or rather they all have plenty of 'ok' options for people able to work at somewhat in-demands fields (despite the financial situation of the last couple years a career in tech or tech…

[flagged]

I kindly invite you to come and show me how to fix Bosnia and Herzegovina. I would love to go back and work at a decent company and have my family and friends (who are now scattered around the world) for afternoon and weekends. All it takes is a genious (like you!) to show up and fix things. Hopefully in an afternoon?

Re: More German than many Germans

#254

Post by herbst »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #250
rockyj wrote: post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

> a lot of German natives complain and some are even leaving the country (around 100k left last year) It's actually 300k, but 200k also returned. The "funny" part is, there is even a long-running TV-show (20th season this year) about people leaving the country, not sure if other countries have something similar. But realistically, expats seems like a common phenomenon in rich countries. Some people just seek the adve…

I also like watching the Austrian (actually a tip if you know German, check ATV) and the swiss edition. Pretty sure swiss has at least a German and a French one, maybe even another one. So yeah, there is that.

Re: More German than many Germans

#255

Post by 47282847 »

usuaof wrote: post #203
ido wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion (immigrant for the 2nd time, currently in Germany since 2013- so I've lived in 3 countries when counting my native one): Basically, all rich/"western" countries are pretty decent. Some better than other, but they're all 'ok' or rather they all have plenty of 'ok' options for people able to work at somewhat in-demands fields (despite the financial situation of the last couple years a career in tech or tech…

[flagged]

lol yeah maybe if Germany threw people out for an opinion like that I would consider leaving (native German). I neither view it as extreme nor as racist.

Re: More German than many Germans

#256

Post by pizza234 »

bspinner wrote: post #214
rglullis wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm living in Berlin for 13/45 of my life, but I don't think I will ever feel integrated. As much as I tried to get around and adapt to the local culture, I quickly found myself only connecting with non-Germans, most of them from Southern Europe, and on a smaller scale from Poland and the Balkans.

Would like to hear your thoughts on why that is the case.

German culture is very functional, rigid, and dry, and it serves people with that kind of mindset very well. However, it clashes strongly with typical Southern cultures, so it is no surprise that the parent mentioned this. People who value the "softer" aspects of life are not going to feel at home.

There are certainly exceptions, and YMMV.

Re: More German than many Germans

#257

Post by pizza234 »

dathinab wrote: post #251
akie wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also a foreigner in Berlin, and my guess is twofold: 1. Their German isn't good enough, which limits the pool of people you can connect to 2. They only or mostly hang out in the expat-scene, which limits the pool of people you can connect to

no, it's the Berlin experience, even for many Germans 1. speaking German doesn't matter too much in Berlin, except older "Berlin Berlins" most people speak conversational English. I have even seen cases of _all_ personal in a caffe not speaking German..., more then once. 2. Over half the people in Berlin are "expat-like": ~20% of people in Berlin are not from Germany, 30-40% or so are not from Berlin and only there f…

> 1. speaking German doesn't matter too much in Berlin, except older "Berlin Berlins" most people speak conversational English

This depends on the context: it doesn't matter to speak German in the stage of life where one doesn't interface with the administration (and therefore, older generations). But for those who settle, and are past that stage, German is a requirement.

Re: More German than many Germans

#258

Post by herbst »

mr_mitm wrote: post #137
ovb39 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of the complaining comes from high taxes, remembering the "good old times" and just from being German. Germans love to complain. I left Germany for a few years and came back. There are very few other places I could imagine to live in. Maybe Norway, Canada or Switzerland. I hope Germany gets its things together, the recent uprise of xenophobia and social polarization is concerning. I grew up in a Germany…

I, a German, went to Switzerland for vacation once. I talked to a Swiss guy about how I like Switzerland and all that. I told him how impressed I was with how organized everything is and how well everything works. The train system and public transport in general is wonderful compared to the one we have in Germany, for example. To my surprise, he said something along the line of "yeah well, it only looks like that fro…

Swiss people often don't see how awesome swiss is themself except they have been away for a longer while to see how shitty every other place tends to be.

Ex. Most people here think Europe is generally this clean. They never bothered looking out of their car in literally any other neighbor country.

Source: Austria living in Switzerland who also lived in Thailand, Malaysia, Czech, .. for a while.

Re: More German than many Germans

#259

Post by servo_sausage »

logicchains wrote: post #154
servo_sausage wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting, as an Aussie, the decline in rule following is honestly a bit upsetting. Part COVID, part mass migration, but the general decline in social trust is something that I really feel. I guess I see breaking rules as fundamentally a lack of empathy.

As another Australian I'm glad to see it. I remember as a kid watching a neighbour's dog of many years being dragged away to the slaughter by a council worker as the old women pleaded for it to be spared, just because it wasn't the right breed. The rules don't leave any room for empathy. There's a saying, "the problem isn't that Australia was founded by prisoners, it's that it was founded by prison guards".

See, I would call getting a breed of dog that has been identified as dangerous, as incredibly selfish. Genuinely an insane degree of self centred reasoning. My special dog is fine, because it's my dog, and I know better than everyone else (but also can't convince anyone that you are in fact right, in order to change the rules).

It's all the behaviour that we have identified as better overall if everyone follows it, and deciding that it doesn't apply to you, because you don't feel like it.

Run a red light, because you are in a hurry. Drive a truck without a licence, because you think you will be fine. Throw a party every night, because your having a great time and there is not enough resources to limit how shit you can be to your neighbours.

Re: More German than many Germans

#260

Post by asdf88990 »

Propelloni wrote: post #80
asdf88990 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German Engineering is a byproduct. The culture that created is also the one that is holding it from becoming competitive with Chinese automakers. Like almost everything, utility and efficiency is relative and dependent on the environment and external factors. People often overlook the “fit”.

They said the same when Japanese car makers were trashing European and US manufacturers in the 1980s. Yet they adapted. Then they said the same when the South Koreans trashed them, yet they adapted. Now they say the same about the Chinese. Sure, past performance is no indicator of future performance, but all the doom-saying and hysterics are just that, fear of the unknown.

They adopted in the sense of surviving. Considering their head start and massive government support for the industry, their market share compared to Japanese and Korean cars is a joke, with the Chinese it will get even worst because this time they will be pushed out of their home market too.

This comes from a die hard bmw fan. Facts over feelings.

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