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More German than many Germans

mertbulan.com

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Re: More German than many Germans

#191

Post by aleph_minus_one »

probably_wrong wrote: post #159

On the topic of rules: > [Rules mean that] someone, or a group of people, sat down and thought about that specific thing and decided on a standard for everyone. When you have to do something, you don't feel lost, because you can just look it up. You don't have to find someone who knows. I mildly disagree with this stance for two reasons. First, "you can just look it up" it's like arguing that it's okay if the Linux k…

> Once the government starts ignoring them while demanding that everyone else follows them, every rule becomes a potential headache.

There is a reason why hardly any German person speaks of "unsere (Bundes-)Regierung" [our (federal) government], but nearly always about "die (Bundes-)Regierung" [the (federal) government] [1]. Indeed, the federal government is something that many Germans rather think of something like a catastrophic natural force than something where you have any sense of belonging. To further prove my point: what US-American jokes are about lawyers are jokes about politicians in Germany.

[1] That the German article "die" is a quite different verb in English makes this even nicer: if you know a little bit of English, you immediately think of "die, (federal) government", when you talk in German of "die Bundesregierung".

Re: More German than many Germans

#192

Post by rglullis »

master-lincoln wrote: post #163
rglullis wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would set an example No, it wouldn't. This type of logic only holds if we consider that drivers are automatons who can not analyze risks by themselves. Give the drivers autonomy to judge whether it's safe or not to deviate from the scheduled route. I rather have a driver signaling me "No, I will not open the door now because I don't think it is safe" over "No, I will not open the door now because I can't break t…

You not following rules makes me think less of you as a person. Rules are made so not everybody needs to judge every situation correctly themselves. People might overlook consequences or are not informed enough to make good decisions.

> Rules are made so not everybody needs to judge every situation correctly themselves.

Rules are not the problem. Trying to apply one set of rules to every context is.

> People might overlook consequences or are not informed enough to make good decisions.

That happens regardless, so much so that "I was just following orders" defense has been tried many times before and never became morally acceptable.

Re: More German than many Germans

#193

Post by freehorse »

master-lincoln wrote: post #158
klausa wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're usually private companies owned by the cities.

Can something be private and owned by a state? Isn't the definition of private: non-public? And wouldn't the government in a democratic state count as public?

"Public enterprises" are different kinds of enterprises, with different structure and governed by different regulations/laws than private enterprises. "State owned private enterprises" have all the structure etc of a private enterprise, their only difference being that they are owned (fully or by majority) by some state body.

Re: More German than many Germans

#194

Post by master-lincoln »

probably_wrong wrote: post #159

On the topic of rules: > [Rules mean that] someone, or a group of people, sat down and thought about that specific thing and decided on a standard for everyone. When you have to do something, you don't feel lost, because you can just look it up. You don't have to find someone who knows. I mildly disagree with this stance for two reasons. First, "you can just look it up" it's like arguing that it's okay if the Linux k…

Sounds like the rule system worked in your example. What other better solution do you imagine?

> Try and figure out the rules for opening a GmbH by yourself (and the advantages over a Ug) and let me know if you feel comfortable in doing it without "finding someone who knows".

It's possible from the laws, but it's a complex topic. If you do not have the time to understand complex topics you get help...

> Rules are fine, but only when everyone follows them. Once the government starts ignoring them while demanding that everyone else follows them, every rule becomes a potential headache.

Nobody should ignore the rules including the government. But you could sue them successfully because there were rules in place for how a government can operate.

Re: More German than many Germans

#195

Post by freehorse »

wuschel wrote: post #65
rockyj wrote: post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

> Speaking of which, a lot of German natives complain and some are even leaving the country (around 100k left last year), but honestly I have visited / lived in nine countries, and people have no idea how good they have it here. The grass is always greener on the other side ... until you actually dare to find out. Having lived and worked in many a country, I second your opinion that it is often about trade offs. Prob…

There are also circumstances and other factors that may be unknown to you when you move to a new place (your first flatmate, the city you move in, the company etc), or factors you did not choose or had little control of up to some age (the area you grew up, the people around you etc) that can affect one's experience. The article's author also talks about that.

A person who moved to ostwestfalen or in a small town in eastern germany will probably not have the same experience as a person moving to hamburg (no offence to any of these places). A person moving as an intern to a relatively international environment will not have the same experience as a person who moves to a 100% german environment. It definitely matters how you act in your environment, but the environment restricts what you can get out of it as experience. Similarly, this applies to moving to any country, but also to where you were born.

Imo and ime people who do not get a good experience out of a country (the one they were born in or where they moved) is most of the times not about having unrealistic expectations of other places (they may have, but it is not the point) or they do something wrong, but due to a big chunk of factors and general character/compatibility issues that one has little control over, and may even be unaware of until that point. This holds for the "success stories" as much as the "failed" ones. It is hard to accept sometimes because having little/no control over stuff can be uncomfortable. The experience of different people can be different for things out of each one's control mostly.

In any case, getting different experiences in places out of where one was raised can always be helpful and help one grow.

Re: More German than many Germans

#196

Post by kome »

roysting wrote: post #185

[flagged]

i had to re-read your comment twice. i thought i might have misunderstood. it’s rare these days to read such a pure, unfiltered ethno-nationalist argument, that level of ethnic and racial essentialism is a rare sight. you are the realest of the real, a true heartfelt nazi. i’m impressed.

Re: More German than many Germans

#197

Post by lotsofpulp »

klausa wrote: post #170
master-lincoln wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can something be private and owned by a state? Isn't the definition of private: non-public? And wouldn't the government in a democratic state count as public?

"Public company" is a very specific thing; the BVG is state owned, but very much not a public company.

In the US, “public” can be short for a private business with publicly listed shares on a stock exchange anyone can buy, or public can mean an organization owned and operated by the government.

Re: More German than many Germans

#198

Post by ksk23 »

suslik wrote: post #79
lqet wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get run over by a car or bicycle while trying to board a bus outside an official station, or if you trip, the bus company is liable, and the driver will be in very big trouble. Also, wehret den Anfängen! If they started doing this, it would set an example: it would make it very difficult to keep the schedule, and would invite people to just walk into traffic to busses stopping at a red light.

I see it like this: Me: I'd like to get out here please. Driver: But it can be dangerous... Me: Noted. Good thing that is not your problem. And when I am hit by a camel while departing the bus, that is my problem also. But of course, most cultures do not support this line of reasoning - you need to be taken care of weather you like it or not. This approach is well tolerated by most people, but saddens and irritates p…

When you enter the bus you kind of have a contract that states they will safely let you out at the designated places..

Re: More German than many Germans

#199

Post by ksk23 »

inatreecrown2 wrote: post #54
bambax wrote: post #13

The first time I was in Berlin I had to take a bus. It was just leaving the stop as I was getting there, but stopped at the next red light. So I ran to the bus and knocked on the door. The driver looked at me with a concerned look to see if something was wrong, and once he understood I was just asking to come onboard outside of the regular stop, he laughed. Not ironically or in a mean way: it was a genuine laugh like…

This was such an unusual thing for me coming from Germany to Italy. The Bus driver would stop at seemingly random places to pick up or drop people off. Once he stopped at the cafe to pick up his newspaper!

German bus drivers sometimes stop to check the bins for leftover "Pfandpflaschen" (reusable beverage cans, 25 euro cents per)

Re: More German than many Germans

#200

Post by probably_wrong »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #25

I have a question for you, or any other immigrants. A common complaint I have heard from rule-followers immigrating to Germany is something like "You have to have an appointment in person for minor thing X at the city hall, and there are 7 slots for a date and time 5 months from now" (some exaggeration). How prevalent was this in your experience, or anyone else you know? Any particular cities that are worse in this r…

Without writing my entire life story, here are some pointers.

Best city: Leverkusen. Easy to get appointments, incredibly friendly personnel. Honorable mention for Potsdam.

Worst city: Saarbrücken. I was undocumented a couple months because they couldn't get hold of my documents and refused to give me anything saying it wasn't my fault. They called security to bring me outside, too. When I pointed out that without documents I could be deported they laughed and said "that almost never happens".

Worst delay: Köln. They sat on my documents for two years - not because they had to, mind you, but partially because they decided to proof from scratch documents that had already been vetted by Leverkusen. In the end I had to sue them.

Most improved: Berlin. By the time I left they went from overworked to quite okay. They also used to offer a queue for those who needed an appointment right now but couldn't get one the official way.

Generally speaking big cities are a nightmare and small cities are a delight.

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