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EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

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Re: EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

#141

Post by dijit »

mort96 wrote: post #140
dijit wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think rejecting proposals from MEPs on the grounds that "it's against EU interests" would be very undemocratic and fuel the very anti-EU sentiment that it would supposedly combat.

And approving this kind of regulation doesn't?

idk what kind of fascist you are, but a free society doesn’t stop talking about something because certain leaders don’t like it.

In order to get legislation you want (say: gay rights) you have to risk legislation you don’t like, for some, that would be gay rights too…

Re: EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

#142

Post by frm88 »

0x000xca0xfe wrote: post #39
SecretDreams wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about boobies, but I would guess META/other infinite scroll products are this generation's cigarettes in terms of long term harm and we do a severe disservice to all young people that are exposed to this product. Moreover, asking parents to intervene is obviously not going to work because they, themselves, have been partially ruined by it and lack the critical thinking required to intervene and the prowess…

Then the solution could be just like the solution to tobacco addiction: tax social media companies HARD, tax all advertising on social media 10x, 20x, or ban advertising on/for social media outright, ban advertising of kids products, ban showing use of social media in movies not rated 18, ... the problem will vanish just like cigarettes. But no, that's not what governments are doing. They want control and surveillanc…

This is the most sensible solution to this problem I have read on HN in the 2 years I've been here. Think of the positive effects taxation would have: no whack-a-mole for every loophole the industry will find. No single fines after costly court battles that are basically pocket change for Zuckerberg et al. Adherence to polluter-pays-priciple. Make it so that if they stop advertising, the tax expires. Use the tax money for better infrastructue. Make the tax progressive - the more ads, the higher the tax.

Added benefit: even adults will be less exposed to addictive material.

What would be the cons of this?

Re: EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

#144

Post by PeterStuer »

m132 wrote: post #86
skeptic_ai wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should start by tracking their every movement to see if they enjoy

Of course they won't. That's why there's precisely an exemption for government personnel in Chat Control. https://europeanpirates.eu/chatcontrol-eu-ministers-want-to-...

Not just exempting themselves, but actively building and deploying end-to-end encrypted chat apps for gov only use with (non)retention and (un)transparancy fully under their own control. Tbf, we're still waiting for Von Der Leyen's SMS's, and that was not even on such an app. Some can just ignore the law without repercussions.

Re: EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

#145

Post by imtringued »

izacus wrote: post #66
matheusmoreira wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most analysts expect Total bullshit. There is no "effective" method without hardware remote attestation. If I control the system, I can just spoof whatever "verification" it is you're asking. The whole point of hardware attestation is to put a cryptographic key in the computer that the users can't ever get at, then use that key to prove the computer booted a corporate owned operating system that's 100% aligned with…

You can of course create an independent attestation database at any time and mandate its use - verifying that the custom OS you use fits minimum security requirements for digital ID use. We use that approach in several other industries. But.... that requires work beyond just complaining.

>But.... that requires work beyond just complaining.

So you have to build an entire parallel internet just because you want to use Linux? That's what your argument boils down to.

The people who are complaining on HN are not platform operators, the platform operators don't care at all. To them it's not even about whether it requires work, they literally don't care.

For the people who care, it's not a matter of work, because they don't operate the platform.

Re: EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

#146

Post by imtringued »

izacus wrote: post #111
matheusmoreira wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're using similar approval processes across multiple industries to certify hardware Why not tell us more about the requirements for hardware certification? Seriously doubt it's anything but the usual war on general purpose computing. Requirement #1, the computer runs the mandated surveillance software. Requirement #2, the computer does not allow the user to run any software not approved by the government. Require…

> Why not tell us more about the requirements for hardware certification? Err, it's actually pretty simple: the token/certificate representing your ID (or credit card, or anything really) cannot be exfiltrated by userspace or installed kernel space apps or intercepted on the way to TPM when issued. And it cannot be duplicated. It's the same set of requirements that are put on credit card smart chips and biometric chi…

>Err, it's actually pretty simple: the token/certificate representing your ID (or credit card, or anything really) cannot be exfiltrated by userspace or installed kernel space apps or intercepted on the way to TPM when issued. And it cannot be duplicated.

So you need a proprietary browser running on a proprietary OS (both userspace and the kernel) with proprietary TPM hardware. You just proved the point. No more Linux.

Re: EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

#147

Post by imtringued »

dwattttt wrote: post #90
matheusmoreira wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to actually enforce age restrictions I don't. This "think of the kids" nonsense is a psyop to manufacture consent for this shit. People really need to stop falling for it.

Do you also oppose drivers licensing, alcohol age limits? Those rely on a trusted ID managed by a government.

I have never been asked to show my ID ever in my entire life when buying alcohol.

The alcohol age limit equivalent would be to put the entire TPM + proprietary software infrastructure into the cash register, locking in a monopoly on what software can be used on cash registers. Not to mention, you now have to scan your ID, which then obviously gets recorded forever, allowing the government to track your alcohol consumption.

Yeah, I'm against that and I don't even drink alcohol, not even the alcohol I've bought myself as a gift to my parents.

Re: EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

#148

Post by Gud »

skeptic_ai wrote: post #84
yodsanklai wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All this ostensibly to keep teenage boys from watching Pornhub (when parental controls already exist). The real reason ... Maybe I'm naive, but I think there's no deeper motivation. There are activists and politicians who really believe this is a cause worth fighting for.

Maybe we should start by tracking their every movement to see if they enjoy

Already happening.

Re: EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

#149

Post by burnt-resistor »

big85 wrote: post #18

All this ostensibly to keep teenage boys from watching Pornhub (when parental controls already exist). The real reason, of course, is to force people to connect strong real-life identifiers to online activity. Mobile first, then Windows. Then Linux is too weak to oppose on its own, and will adapt or die.

Yep. This is billionaire-led corruption of governments globally to buy legislation that takes away our rights. It benefits data brokers, intelligence agencies, and police.

Re: EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation

#150

Post by inigyou »

yodsanklai wrote: post #82
big85 wrote: post #18

All this ostensibly to keep teenage boys from watching Pornhub (when parental controls already exist). The real reason, of course, is to force people to connect strong real-life identifiers to online activity. Mobile first, then Windows. Then Linux is too weak to oppose on its own, and will adapt or die.

> All this ostensibly to keep teenage boys from watching Pornhub (when parental controls already exist). The real reason ... Maybe I'm naive, but I think there's no deeper motivation. There are activists and politicians who really believe this is a cause worth fighting for.

Some people want this. Other people want mass surveillance. Conveniently, they are aligned! The mass surveillance people will shoot down any version of age verification that doesn't also allow mass surveillance.
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