Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't, especially when the artist flows into the art. Take H.P. Lovecraft. Very big name in supernatural horror, created Great Cthulu and various other tropes that survive and are influential to today. Famously misogynistic and racist. Particularly on the racism side it's not really even fair to say he was 'of his time', it seems to go beyond that. And it's all there in the fiction. Fear of the other, racist tropes…
Some authors are indeed very hard to separate from their work, and Lovecraft is one of them. I still enjoy reading him, but I always struggle reading his passages about mongrels, halfbreeds or dark skinned people being evil or deceitful, because that's what he truly believed. So yes, it flowed into what he wrote. A much less odious -- and better! -- writer who I also had trouble with was Jack London, who also wrote s…
Read the novels and forget everything else
61–70 of 131 posts
Re: Read the novels and forget everything else
#62>
> “A lovely young woman indeed, Heaven,” said Jack. “Mrs Heaven, if I do not mistake?”
> “Why, sir, in a manner of speaking: but some might say more on the porcupine-lay, the roving-line, if you understand me.”
> “There is a great deal to be said for porcupines, Heaven: Solomon had a thousand, and Solomon knew what o’clock it was.”
>
> Or from The Yellow Admiral (1996):
>
> Stephen nodded, and with a curiously knowing look, his head on one side, he asked, > “Can you foretell the dark of the moon with reasonable accuracy?”
> “I believe so,” said Jack. “Her motions are of some importance in navigation you know, and we learn them quite early.”
I didn't get either of these jokes.
Re: Read the novels and forget everything else
#63> O’Brian’s ear for dialogue produced some of his finest comedy. From The 13 Gun Salute (1989): > > “A lovely young woman indeed, Heaven,” said Jack. “Mrs Heaven, if I do not mistake?” > “Why, sir, in a manner of speaking: but some might say more on the porcupine-lay, the roving-line, if you understand me.” > “There is a great deal to be said for porcupines, Heaven: Solomon had a thousand, and Solomon knew what o’clo…
Jack’s saying that since he’s a seafarer, navigating by the moon is important. It’s standard British-understatement-as-comedy trope.
Re: Read the novels and forget everything else
#64> O’Brian’s ear for dialogue produced some of his finest comedy. From The 13 Gun Salute (1989): > > “A lovely young woman indeed, Heaven,” said Jack. “Mrs Heaven, if I do not mistake?” > “Why, sir, in a manner of speaking: but some might say more on the porcupine-lay, the roving-line, if you understand me.” > “There is a great deal to be said for porcupines, Heaven: Solomon had a thousand, and Solomon knew what o’clo…
I got the second one. Jack’s saying that since he’s a seafarer, navigating by the moon is important. It’s standard British-understatement-as-comedy trope.
Re: Read the novels and forget everything else
#65> O’Brian’s ear for dialogue produced some of his finest comedy. From The 13 Gun Salute (1989): > > “A lovely young woman indeed, Heaven,” said Jack. “Mrs Heaven, if I do not mistake?” > “Why, sir, in a manner of speaking: but some might say more on the porcupine-lay, the roving-line, if you understand me.” > “There is a great deal to be said for porcupines, Heaven: Solomon had a thousand, and Solomon knew what o’clo…
Re: Read the novels and forget everything else
#66Re: Read the novels and forget everything else
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
“It's not easy being green.” - Kermit The Frog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRZ-IxZ46ng > Eh, I'm not watching a video to see a quote from someone I've never heard of and have no particular reason to value. And whatever he might have to say, I'm not reliant on the work of a specific author, which is the context here. Nor do I buy into "you can't survive without relying on/funding some people you disagree with the…
> Eh, I'm not watching a video to see a quote from someone I've never heard of and have no particular reason to value. Your loss. > Nor do I buy into "you can't survive without relying on/funding some people you disagree with therefore you shouldn't seek to act consistently with your own ethics in any regard" as a philosophy. But what exactly is your ethics here? Is it that nobody should rely on people who have done…
Seems unlikely. I'd have read an argument but I don't generally consider links-to-youtube to be an argument.
> Is it that nobody should rely on people who have done something bad?
My point is it's not impossible to make ethical choices about spending, even in a world where you don't have full control.
The idea that it is wrong to make ethical decisions about how to spend your money, time or attention, either because the system we live in makes complete consistency impossible or because of some notion that we might force people judged as bad to starve, is just so bizarre.
A thread here the other day covered several brands of "Italian" or "Australian" tomato paste in Australia that have been caught using Chinese tomatoes, which are largely from areas we know use forced labour. I don't approve of forced labour and I'm willing to pay a little more to avoid contributing to that. If enough others join me, it might make a small difference. By directing what economic activity I can to products from nations with good standards of worker rights, I hope I help keep slavery-free products viable, until such time as we get a government with a backbone.
But am I boycotting everything made in China? Could I even conceptually avoid using all Chinese products when they're literally everywhere? No, that seems very unlikely to even be possible in this day and age. But I don't consider that the inability to do that negates the choices I make where I can. Your quote makes it seem like you do think that? All or nothing? Go live in a locally made yurt and grow your own food or just give up?
> If it is, then how should these condemned people live?
Well if there's no more profit to be had in selling the output of indentured servitude, it might stop? And these "condemned" people could do something else to make a living rather than being slavers?
If a particular author was known to be (for example) funding white supremacist groups, am I supposed to feel guilt that I might not buy their book? Why? They need to eat? Maybe they could stop the funding then?
Now, where your specific red lines are is going to be variable, and where it comes to artistic output things are always blurry. But I still don't think it's wrong to ask "Where is my money going? What second order effect is this purchase having on the world?"
An author who abandoned his family and lied about large parts of his life is clearly not a good person. Whether that puts you off reading them is up to you. I still (occasionally) reread HP Lovecraft, with the knowledge he was a pretty godawful racist, even for his times, and so is some of his work. That said, buying a book of his isn't going to fund him or his views these days, as there is no identifiable estate.
Re: Read the novels and forget everything else
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's a mistake to dismiss them just for that reason. He's been dead for 26 years, and you can get the books second-hand, so it's easy to acquire them while ensuring no money goes to him or his estate if that's what you're worried about. They're an absolutely fantastic set of novels, full of joy and adventure and excitement and humor and astonishing erudition.. Tom Stoppard admired him (as mentioned in the art…
If I can find more media than I could ever possibly consume that a) I'll love to death, b) has a fan community who loves it with me, and c) is written by authors I don't viscerally reject, why would I ever compromise on those? Vanishingly few works are so good, so life altering, that I'd need to set aside my qualms with the author to read them. Like, I'm sure master and commander is a fine series of books. I'm sure i…
Anyway - yes there is a ton of content out there, more than enough for 100 lifetimes. If you have two hours and eighteen minutes the movie Master And Command: Far Side of the World does the source material good justice and is an excellent film in its own right. It's quite true to the books so it is probably a good predictor of whether you'd enjoy the books.
Re: Read the novels and forget everything else
#69I loved the Peter Weir adaptation and was always hopeful there would be more, particularly with that ending leaving it open like that. I picked up the first book recently so that I could read through it on vacation. I do tend to agree with Jan Morris in that only people who knew the author have reason to care about his personal life. Of course there are limits, and given the author has been dead for 26 years and the…
I haven't read Master and Commander and likely never will after reading this article. I couldn't get over the bad taste in my mouth I don't think. Fortunate for you to have read the book before the article. Too many good novels that weren't written by dispicable people.
I can't bring myself to be so judgemental. He once lost his temper in a restaurant, he left his wife (and maybe she was lovely, maybe she did something terrible), he wrote under an assumed name (and the point?). Which one triggered you? Is hardly a character assassination. His son from his first marriage was estranged, as if that is unique.
Do yourself a favour, if you like the arts, I seriously recommend not finding out what the artists are really like at home. I think you will find many are not the people they appear to be.
Re: Read the novels and forget everything else
#70He is a completely flawed man. The books are borderline flawless (will admit when I reread them now I skip the last 2 or 3 because he clearly felt the creep of time and started killing off characters I loved deeply). >O’Brian as “an artificer” whose work lacked the “frisson” one finds “in the presence of creative greatness” Absolutely zero idea what that even means. The books are wonderful as escapist superhero stuff…
I also recognized Jack’s incredible management skills! He knows exactly how to get the best work out of people and especially how to correct them without making them feel inferior or resentful.
Whereas Jack's feats trials and tribulations very much come from Cochrane. Almost verbatim.
Nelson and Cochrane were true heroes, the finest. Ant yet both had very visible flaws of character. I personally admire their achievements more than we criticise their faults...
I see Jack as his own unique character though. He doesn't quite have the talent for making enemies that Cochrane did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cochrane,_10th_Earl_of_...