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Read the novels and forget everything else

hedgehogreview.com

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Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#41

Post by altmanaltman »

tclancy wrote: post #16

He is a completely flawed man. The books are borderline flawless (will admit when I reread them now I skip the last 2 or 3 because he clearly felt the creep of time and started killing off characters I loved deeply). >O’Brian as “an artificer” whose work lacked the “frisson” one finds “in the presence of creative greatness” Absolutely zero idea what that even means. The books are wonderful as escapist superhero stuff…

I think the article is not doing a good job quoting the person who said that. You can more here and most of what she says is actually in appreciation of the work itself.

> It might well be argued that if the 20 volumes of the Aubrey-Maturin cycle were to be telescoped into one book, it really would rival War and Peace as a supremely grand historical novel. O'Brian's attention to detail is astonishing, his invention never flags, his characters are rounded, his plots are compelling and he is often wonderfully merry. His saga ranges the world through many years of history, and his prose can be beautiful.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/sep/03/biography

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#42

Post by Nursie »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #36
nabbed wrote: post #14

>And then it all went bad. The Daily Telegraph, following up on biographical discrepancy in a BBC documentary, uncovered proof that Patrick O’Brian…was not Patrick O’Brian. About 15 years ago, I decided to know as little as possible about the musicians/artists/writers whose work I was consuming, because I didn't want my enjoyment of their work to be influenced or spoiled by what I knew about them (even superficial th…

> he pointed out that by insisting on maintaining ignorance, I could be funding a very bad person. I don't consider that to be something worth worrying about. On the contrary, I find the obsession that some have with moral purity and not ever supporting the wrong type of person to be a serious mark of immaturity. Every person, without exception, is a collection of both good and bad traits. I believe that the adult th…

I think the desire to not have to be accountable for ones choices and their effect on the world is also childlike, personally.

One of the powers we have in this capitalist world is to decide where our money goes. If there's a decent chance it'll end up perpetuating something I find massively objectionable, it's my choice not to fund that.

Beyond that it's not just about reducing everything to good or bad, it's also about understanding the context of the works you're consuming. Sometimes the author's life, prejudices and mores seep into the work, and put a new spin on the characters and scenarios.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#43

Post by wahern »

ekelsen wrote: post #32
tclancy wrote: post #16

He is a completely flawed man. The books are borderline flawless (will admit when I reread them now I skip the last 2 or 3 because he clearly felt the creep of time and started killing off characters I loved deeply). >O’Brian as “an artificer” whose work lacked the “frisson” one finds “in the presence of creative greatness” Absolutely zero idea what that even means. The books are wonderful as escapist superhero stuff…

I think the quoted sentence is basically saying his work is workman like and doesn't cause the chills that reading something truly great does. (I don't agree)

I think she's betraying that her knowledge of his personal character colors her interpretation and experience of his work:

> Why, then, does his work not give me the ultimate frisson I get when I feel I am in the presence of creative greatness, and which constantly moves me as I read the pages of Leo Tolstoy? I think it is because in Tolstoy I know I am confronting fundamental truths, expressed in fiction that has grown organically out of human life, out of history, and out of the author's heart. In O'Brian, on the contrary, I am reading the work of an artificer, a contriver of genius and, well, a liar.

From https://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/sep/03/biography (link posted elsewhere, though not before I had to resort to using ChatGPT to dredge it up).

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#45

Post by tecoholic »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #36
nabbed wrote: post #14

>And then it all went bad. The Daily Telegraph, following up on biographical discrepancy in a BBC documentary, uncovered proof that Patrick O’Brian…was not Patrick O’Brian. About 15 years ago, I decided to know as little as possible about the musicians/artists/writers whose work I was consuming, because I didn't want my enjoyment of their work to be influenced or spoiled by what I knew about them (even superficial th…

> he pointed out that by insisting on maintaining ignorance, I could be funding a very bad person. I don't consider that to be something worth worrying about. On the contrary, I find the obsession that some have with moral purity and not ever supporting the wrong type of person to be a serious mark of immaturity. Every person, without exception, is a collection of both good and bad traits. I believe that the adult th…

Someone pointed it out to me that, if a person does something bad and faces the consequences by law, then that should be the end of it. Applying a personal punishment individually like avoiding anything they have involved in, is pointless or even unfair.

It can’t apply to all scenarios. But that struck me as an important thing to consider. Sometimes people get out of the consequences by using the riches they accumulated by being bad.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#46

Post by BLKNSLVR »

I'm slowly collecting this set of novels from various second-hand book shops, and I'm looking forward to reading them in order, most likely some time in retirement. I'm happy not to know anything about the author, reading is all about the suspension of disbelief, so I will continue to let myself have that outlet.

The movie is one of my all time favourites.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#47

Post by BLKNSLVR »

vixen99 wrote: post #44

I'm afraid the examples of 'his finest comedy' are so 'dry' I'm missing it completely. My loss I guess.

You're not the only one.

I have read somewhere that there is a whole separate book that explains the nautical terminology used in the books, which was recommended as a reference to keep by ones side whilst reading the books. I wonder if it also applies to porcupine-lay or roving line.

I just ran it past an LLM and it provided a decent explanation. Also see @tclancy's reply to @jvandonsel: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49149969

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#48

Post by defen »

ComputerPerson wrote: post #7
magicmicah85 wrote: post #5

I loved the Peter Weir adaptation and was always hopeful there would be more, particularly with that ending leaving it open like that. I picked up the first book recently so that I could read through it on vacation. I do tend to agree with Jan Morris in that only people who knew the author have reason to care about his personal life. Of course there are limits, and given the author has been dead for 26 years and the…

I haven't read Master and Commander and likely never will after reading this article. I couldn't get over the bad taste in my mouth I don't think. Fortunate for you to have read the book before the article. Too many good novels that weren't written by dispicable people.

I think it's a mistake to dismiss them just for that reason. He's been dead for 26 years, and you can get the books second-hand, so it's easy to acquire them while ensuring no money goes to him or his estate if that's what you're worried about. They're an absolutely fantastic set of novels, full of joy and adventure and excitement and humor and astonishing erudition.. Tom Stoppard admired him (as mentioned in the article) and Thomas Pynchon even wrote him into a brief scene in Mason & Dixon.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#49

Post by BLKNSLVR »

tclancy wrote: post #24
jvandonsel wrote: post #17

Despite reading the entire series twice, I never understood the porcupine line. Can someone ELI5?

It’s Jack talking through his hat again. I think he’s trying to determine if a woman is married or not and when it turns out they having a roving eye, he conflates “porcupine” (no idea what a porcupine-lay might be) with “concubine”.

I think "lay" might be as literal as we would use it now.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#50

Post by BLKNSLVR »

WalterBright wrote: post #28

I've rarely read anything that had so many words I had never heard of!

I started reading the first book (and since stopped as I wasn't ready for the detailed nautical terminology), but one thing really jarred me was, in this section of very dry terminology when setting up a ship for sail, the use of the 'olde' terminology for 'cut splice'.

It's great that he uses the time specific terminology, but it threw me because I really wasn't expecting that word at that time.

It's become my favourite knot to reference though, because I'm still a child.

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