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China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

reuters.com

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Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#111

Post by cyanydeez »

jimbob45 wrote: post #42
bobjordan wrote: post #15

After living and working in China 10yrs and fundamentally experiencing the growth rate and culture, it's been a bit horrifying to watch the Western world consistently decide withholding tech from China and giving them no other option but develop their own tech, is a good idea. They are the ultimate long-term planners and I have no doubt the existing gaps will be relatively short lived before China closes them.

China is single-handedly propping up Iran, NK, and Russia financially. If you ahem removed the top 1000 leaders of the CCP tomorrow, those three countries wouldn’t be able to continue their population repression and the world would be an immeasurably better place. Iran killed, what, 20k of their own population earlier this year? Russia has lost 10x that this year alone. Blocking tech from China directly hampers their…

the USA is single handidly proping up a genocidal Israel and putting drunk TV hosts in charge of their department of war... and is at the tipping point of ethnic cleansing....

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#112

Post by try-working »

culi wrote: post #107
try-working wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you are wrong. Without the blacklisting and export bans the DUV machine in the article would not exist today.

Absolutely and I'm shocked how unaware people are about this issue. This was massive news. China went from self sufficiency on chips of about 10% after decades to over 33% self sufficiency in just a few years after Trump's trade war of 2017/2018 (which Biden did not back down from and Trump only ramped up in his second term) And its not just chips. It was seen as a total affront of china moving up the tech value chai…

agree. what people dont understand is that the blacklisting is what created motivation for investing capital, manpower and years of time into these companies, or initiatives inside existing companies. most of this would have never gotten off the ground without the incentive they created.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#113

Post by sudosysgen »

coderenegade wrote: post #109
sudosysgen wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, none of that is inherent. But do note that China never caught up in internal combustion engines. They had to wait for a fundamental paradigm change to catch up, and were not able to copy ICE technology to a satisfactory level. Similarly, China has been able to make serviceable airframes for decades, it's just until now that they're getting close to price competition - and likely Comac will be more expensive for…

China moved directly to hybrid drivetrains, which is where the future of the internal combustion engine lies. They did this while pushing EV technology, and it gave them a fundamental advantage because low voltage hybrids are not the future of cars. It's also too early to say whether or not they managed to catch up in ICE technology, because it takes time to put 500k kms on millions of drivetrains, and they haven't b…

They didn't go straight, though. Chinese companies have been working for years on ICE. In fact, the largest companies were focused on ICE cars, and many were outcompeted by domestic EV upstarts.

Chinese cars have been sold worldwide for decades, they just weren't competitive with western cars even in very poor African countries.

We do have a pretty good idea of the quality of the current crop of Chinese ICE engines. They aren't great - I can go into more detail if you want.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#114

Post by defrost »

sleepyguy wrote: post #108
defrost wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^^Please don't do this^^ https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Do you think they aren't here? It needs to be pointed out, so folks are aware.

Did you read the guidelines and grasp the intent?

Do you think HN users are unable to form their own opinions?

Would the forum be better if every comment came with a ship's hull infestation of remora opinions as to who is or isn't in someone's opinion a paedophile, an AI booster, a twat, a tool, a russian tankie, or simply just Tasmanian?

What would be far better would be a comment of substance addressing the points made within a comment rather than ankle deep shallow name calling, unsubstantiated allegations, etc.

In short, so what if someone is paid by China to promote certain viewpoints; address the issues rather than the dull fact that almost everybody here is either paid by someone or has a strong financial incentive toward something.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#115

Post by applicative »

deaux wrote: post #73
jimbob45 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We support them but they don’t need us. Iran would crumble tomorrow without China. Also, Likud Israel might be gone after this year’s October election, whether we want it gone or not. Conversely, China acts as a virtual suzerain over Iran (and NK).

If you truly believe that Gaza would be entirely rubble as it is today without the last 2 decades of slavish US backing, I don't know what to tell you. US is also best friends with the financiers of the horrific genocide in Sudan. This isn't whataboutism because you're genuinely presenting it as if it's something very different from what the US has been up to for the last 60 years.

The slavish US backing is the same slavish backing we give to Egypt, both consequent on Camp David. It is very obvious - simple arithmetic - that Israel would have a much bigger and chearper arsenal if they traded arms with China, India, Russia etc. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just jewpilled.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#116

Post by SanjayMehta »

defrost wrote: post #93
SanjayMehta wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a poor example? State level resources - even from decrepit countries like Pakistan and NK - will ALWAYS beat VC funding or whatever.

Because internal state level resources in Pakistan and NK didn't get them nuclear weapons, both countries required external assistance. The point being made about China is that China secured a production monopoly on rare earth processing entirely on its own. As it did for EV's and will do for dense chip fabrication.

External assistance for sure, from state actors who would never assist a VC funded startup.

Your point about China is exactly the same as mine. A state determined to build something will eventually succeed, especially if it's a country as single minded as China.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#117

Post by applicative »

anigbrowl wrote: post #10
sleepyguy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, these news organizations have no f'n clue. China this, China that, it's all part of the 10 billion China spends on b.s to feed the Americans that they are behind or they are useless and that they don't stand a chance.... China is on the verge of collapse walking the razors edge.

Schrödinger's economy https://thediplomat.com/2015/03/why-do-people-keep-predictin...

Does thediplomat.com also have articles on the historical depth of of the list of predictions that the USA will collapse? It is a far older and infinitely more pervasive phenomenon.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#118

Post by nunez »

kungito wrote: post #64
nunez wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of very very very smart people working in defense. Gov doesn't pay the best but the benefits are unmatched.

afaik no one is working in defence anymore; now they are working in war

congress still hasn't approved the name change

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#119

Post by coderenegade »

sudosysgen wrote: post #113
coderenegade wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China moved directly to hybrid drivetrains, which is where the future of the internal combustion engine lies. They did this while pushing EV technology, and it gave them a fundamental advantage because low voltage hybrids are not the future of cars. It's also too early to say whether or not they managed to catch up in ICE technology, because it takes time to put 500k kms on millions of drivetrains, and they haven't b…

They didn't go straight, though. Chinese companies have been working for years on ICE. In fact, the largest companies were focused on ICE cars, and many were outcompeted by domestic EV upstarts. Chinese cars have been sold worldwide for decades, they just weren't competitive with western cars even in very poor African countries. We do have a pretty good idea of the quality of the current crop of Chinese ICE engines.…

From what I can see, nobody bought Chinese cars because the styling was terrible. BYD hiring western designers is what suddenly made Chinese cars desirable, because it kicked other brands into gear.

The forefront of Chinese ICE development today is coming from EV upstarts working on hybrid engines, not the likes of SAIC selling LDVs. There are numerous credible reports of Chinese hybrid engines hitting state-of-the-art thermal efficiencies, and the new wave of Chinese utility vehicles coming out have performance numbers that make everything else look laughable by comparison. It remains to be seen whether or not they can reach the kind of reliability and parts availability that the market expects, but Toyota at least is taking the threat very seriously.

And circling back to the earlier point, there doesn't seem to have been an effective comparative advantage keeping China out of the market. I don't consider hybrid engines to be anything other than ICEs, because they still require injectors, heads, the timing assembly, pumps, etc., and whether or not the ancillaries are mechanically driven or electronic is mostly moot in my opinion. This latest wave of hybrid engines is the just the continuation of a process that has been happening for a hundred years (and is already mature in other transport segments). And in any case, Chinese automakers are here, and we're seeing the biggest upheaval in the automotive industry in 50 years as they overtake Japanese brands in key markets.

>We do have a pretty good idea of the quality of the current crop of Chinese ICE engines. They aren't great - I can go into more detail if you want.

Sure, I'm always happy to talk engines.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#120

Post by truthbe »

gpt5 wrote: post #49
truthbe wrote: post #37

Ultimately a win for the consumer, China does not tend to ban technology as a weapon

Let's not act like China doesn't use export controls for their geopolitical desires. "China halts rare-earth exports to Japan after Japan detains a Chinese fishing-boat captain near disputed islands" [1]. "China suspends natural-sand exports to Taiwan following Nancy Pelosi’s 2022 visit to Taipei" [2]. "China bans exports of gallium, germanium, antimony, and superhard materials to the United States in retaliation for…

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