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IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

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Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It likely would have been based on the PowerPC-based ThinkPad like laptop they produced which also ran AIX (IBM's version of Unix). like these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_Power_Series

Yes, they ran AIX, NT, OS/2 and Solaris, although the latter two only in half baked betas.

Yes. I could not fathom why anyone would want to run anything besides AIX on them though. You can run all the other OS's on cheap commodity hardware, the draw for me was having an AIX system to work with.

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#32

TF is even this >Thanks to this, an administrator seeing the string 123456/QUSER/QZDASOINIT immediately knows who and what launched it, without having to map mysterious PID numbers to service names. did old UNIXes didn't have process names or something ? Those are exactly same information (pid/user/process name) UNIX derivatives or hell, windows get Author seems to be blindsided by the "different" enough to not have…

It's cute to see folks who have completely drunk the in-house koolaid try to communicate to outsiders, and we're better off for it. I really struggled to understand OS/400 coming in with a working knowledge of Unix/Linux, concepts as simple as creating a text file document in OS/400 don't translate at all.

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#33
I'm curious how much of the AS/400 architecture leaks out to the application developers. In the end, the vast majority of the work done on these machines was done in RPG and COBOL.

Curious if most of the architecture was visible to the actual operators, but the developers themselves were, perhaps, a bit isolated from it all.

Because, I don't think HN is a site for "Unix/NT" enthusiasts, but more so high level "computerists" in general. And I don't think that AS/400 application developers would be any less interested in computing than other developers.

Yet, anecdotally, over the years, as much as I've heard bits and pieces about how interesting the AS/400 system is, I've heard anyone talking it up. How they're able to do Cool Computing Thing because of the OS or architecture that can't readily be done on other systems at the time. How the unique features of the AS/400 solved their application and systems problems.

At my office, long ago, we were looking to replace our entire system, and we actually went to an AS/400 demo. But it was very expensive, and whatever they were selling wasn't really resonating with me as a developer, or my boss as a manager. Always wondered "what if" had we got such a system and had to use it in anger what it would have been like.

Anyone have any war stories to share?

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#34
post #11

The article makes me feel the author doesn’t have a deep understanding of some of the mechanisms. TIMI, iirc, is similar to Java (or Smalltalk) bytecode. I’m not sure it’s translated to native instructions on install or on module load, but the native code is kept so that the compilation doesn’t need to happen again. It’s as if the JVM saved a .nativeclass file when a .class file is loaded (kind of one level lower tha…

Considering this article was 100% AI generated (according to Pangram), I doubt the author has much understand in of anything in the article.

AI or not, it was a nice read. Some points needed correction, but, overall, it is a nice write up on one of the roads less traveled (and still commercially supported).

There’s also MCP and OS2000 from Unisys.

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#35

I'm curious how much of the AS/400 architecture leaks out to the application developers. In the end, the vast majority of the work done on these machines was done in RPG and COBOL. Curious if most of the architecture was visible to the actual operators, but the developers themselves were, perhaps, a bit isolated from it all. Because, I don't think HN is a site for "Unix/NT" enthusiasts, but more so high level "comput…

I worked on as400's for about 15 years so I can give you some thoughts:

1-Stability: The as400 is the most robust/stable environment I've ever worked on for business applications. Many of our customers had no IT staff, just the accounting staff that would put in backup tapes, and the machines would run unattended for years until an OS version upgrade.

You're right that the underlying stuff that made it robust was not really visible or accessible to the developer, but it was the foundation that created a solid environment.

2-OS foundational capabilities: The integrated database, job scheduler, message queues, 5250 terminals with some nice capabilities (e.g. "subfiles" that are basically data tables), control language, etc. all combined to make a nice foundation for creating ERP style business apps.

3-RPG: I worked in RPG after coming from assembly language (video games) and my observation to the guys at the company was "hey, it's just like assembly, an opcode and a couple operands". It was a primitive language but because of the foundational items in #2, it only needed to move data, validate data and sometimes complex calcs, so productivity was good.

4-Non-ERP/CRUD backoffice apps: When the internet arrived and our customers wanted to sell online it became clear that the as400 was a square peg and the internet was a round hole. The foundational elements were designed for a different style of workload and interaction.

5-Openness (lack of): There were definitely times when the limits of the language and workload assumptions were different from the problem at hand (beyond just the internet/ecom stuff). There were times when we really felt like our hands were tied and couldn't just do what was needed for problem X, either using different languages or utilities.

One example was a pro basketball team ticketing/seat reservation system. Game packages could be different number of games (e.g. 10, 20, entire season) and number of seats in group could vary, and various other variables created a challenging search problem. We succeeded by getting creative with the DB and indexing and our code, but we felt boxed in while doing it.

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#36
So, I am a nurse by trade, and I somehow ended up as the administrator of one of these systems for a hospital for a number of years. I honestly had no idea how bespoke of a system it was, which I guess is a testament to its robustness!

...that and the two grey-bearded guys I had working for me took care of it like their baby.

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#37
post #20
post #11

The article makes me feel the author doesn’t have a deep understanding of some of the mechanisms. TIMI, iirc, is similar to Java (or Smalltalk) bytecode. I’m not sure it’s translated to native instructions on install or on module load, but the native code is kept so that the compilation doesn’t need to happen again. It’s as if the JVM saved a .nativeclass file when a .class file is loaded (kind of one level lower tha…

Actually all modern JVM implementations, and Android, do exactly that, JIT caches that survive across executions. On Android it is additionally used to guide AOT compilation when the device is idle or charging. TIMI is compiled to native code on installation, or explicitly, either by the admin, or on updates that render the overall compilation invalid.

Was TIMI already a thing when AS/400 was CISC?

Edit: yes. It’s very similar the System/38 version.

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