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Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

uclahealth.org

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Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#51

Post by jimnotgym »

dns_snek wrote: post #29
jimnotgym wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because many autistic people have superpowers in some areas, like systems thinking, thinking outside the box and maybe suprisingly reading people. If you had a superpower, but it came with a curse, that you couldn't always get to work on time, would you trade it in for a normal life? On the other hand, i don't see why a company wouldn't accommodate someone's minor quirks to get access to a superpower.

I'm well aware and I don't have a problem with you or anyone else living life the way you want. This doesn't explain animosity towards treatment/cure research.

Does it not? When you 'cure' the lateness you lose the superpower too. Now you have another boring normie doing a workmanlike job.

I think the reason for the animosity is the assumption that it is it a disease or disorder in the first place. It presumes that rather than being different, it is wrong.

Perhaps what is wrong, is neurotypical people insisting that the more gifted people have to be bent and twisted and forced to conform to the world as they want it. Perhaps because their boring and unimaginative minds can't stand the idea that someone else could lead a different life to them. Or, and have heard this, they are annoyed that the talented person with different needs gets to come in late some days... and they feel they are missing out themselves on a lie-in.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#52

Post by Scandiravian »

dns_snek wrote: post #14
Scandiravian wrote: post #8

Being autistic myself, I feel conflicted about trying to "cure autism" Every day is challenging because I have to manage my energy, mask in social situations and at work, etc On the other hand, I like who I am and I'm also very good at what I do because my brain is structured the way it is. I can imagine a society that is structured in a way, where I don't need the accommodations I'm currently dependent on If the neg…

I see this sentiment often, but only when it comes to autism. How is this different from other disorders, disabilities, illnesses? You could make the exact same arguments for blindness. Every day is challenging, difficulties are mostly a consequence of how we've structured society, it's other people who should accommodate those who have different needs, etc. This narrative seems to originate from, and is perpetuated…

OP here

The main issue I see with this line of thinking is that there is an underlying/implicit assumption that there is something wrong with being autistic

Society has the mental disorders it creates, i.e. autism is only viewed as a disorder because it doesn't fit into the societal structures we have built

Not long ago being gay was considered a mental disorder - should we try to find a cure for homosexuality?

Most neurotypical people who I see argue for "a cure" want one because they don't want a society where there is room for people who experience the world in a different way and therefore have different views than themselves

Said more plainly, they're bigots and they have no qualms berating, scolding, and making fun of an autistic person until said person believes they are actually in need of fixing. If someone who faces discrimination and bullying every day asked to be "cured", are they actually making an informed choice or are they being forced by society?

There is nothing wrong with being autistic and it shouldn't be necessary for myself and other autistic people to justify our existence based on things like economic output

As I pointed out in my original post, I am conflicted about the potential for a "cure". For asd-3 it could potentially be revolutionary in terms of quality of life, but with the discrimination I myself experience and what I hear from other autistic people, not to mention the political situation around the world, I do not trust that this will actually be used to help us. It would be used to control us because other people somehow believe we're broken

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#53

Post by inigyou »

nradov wrote: post #49
inigyou wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone done an experiment administering rapamycin to humans to see if it slows aging? Would that experiment pass an ethics committee?

We don't even have reliable biomarkers for aging in general so what would the endpoints for such an experiment be?

Lifespan would be an easy one to measure. Experiment could take a while.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#54

Post by Scandiravian »

drcongo wrote: post #21
Scandiravian wrote: post #8

Being autistic myself, I feel conflicted about trying to "cure autism" Every day is challenging because I have to manage my energy, mask in social situations and at work, etc On the other hand, I like who I am and I'm also very good at what I do because my brain is structured the way it is. I can imagine a society that is structured in a way, where I don't need the accommodations I'm currently dependent on If the neg…

The flip side - I don't think there's a single upside to the ASD traits I have, I don't like myself, and I would absolutely love to know what it feels like to not have ASD.

OP here

First of all, I'm genuinely sorry to hear that you're struggling with you self-worth because of your symptoms

I don't know you or your story, so I'm not going to assume that my experience is comparable to yours. This is why I'm conflicted about whether I would want a "cure"

My hesitancy against wanting one is based solely on my own life experience. I was diagnosed as an adult and I had struggled with my self-worth and had been chronically depressed since I was a child. If someone had offered me a "cure" so I could fit in at that point, I'd probably have taken it

The thing is that after I learned I was autistic, I could start to recognise that the people who over the years had scolded, yelled, and made fun of me; those people were the ones in the wrong. I was lucky enough to be in a position where I could make changes in my life that accommodate my specific needs, which in turn has made it possible for me to pursue the things that I find meaningful

I don't want a society where we make autistic people believe that they are broken because of small-minded, inconsiderate bigots. After they've fixed their hearts we can talk about "fixing" my brain

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#55

Post by Scandiravian »

intothemild wrote: post #24
Scandiravian wrote: post #8

Being autistic myself, I feel conflicted about trying to "cure autism" Every day is challenging because I have to manage my energy, mask in social situations and at work, etc On the other hand, I like who I am and I'm also very good at what I do because my brain is structured the way it is. I can imagine a society that is structured in a way, where I don't need the accommodations I'm currently dependent on If the neg…

I'm autistic myself. I don't want a "cure" but I would like to have something that could help me reduce some of the harder aspects of life. Right now I'm on anti anxiety drugs, which whilst mostly affective, have sided effects that kind of suck. I'm lucky my wife and daughter love me very much, and I've always been someone who wanted to push myself a little further to get outside or do new things.. mostly because my…

I'm 100% with you

I am very lucky to be in a country where my workplace is required to provide "reasonable accomodations" for me. There's still a long way to go to actually address a lot of the problems that myself and other autistic people have to deal with on a daily basis

The important point for me is that I can see what that world would look like and it doesn't depend on "fixing" me

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#56

Post by _DeadFred_ »

Scandiravian wrote: post #8

Being autistic myself, I feel conflicted about trying to "cure autism" Every day is challenging because I have to manage my energy, mask in social situations and at work, etc On the other hand, I like who I am and I'm also very good at what I do because my brain is structured the way it is. I can imagine a society that is structured in a way, where I don't need the accommodations I'm currently dependent on If the neg…

Anecdotally, I watched parents of autistic children become ghosts/shells of who they were. It seemed like much higher divorce rates, and towards the kids reaching highschool just single, burnt out mothers barely holding things together with no social life and their world reduced to just their kid(s).

The cure shouldn't just be up to the kids, but to the invisible caregivers who give up way more than average parents.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#57

Post by nradov »

inigyou wrote: post #53
nradov wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't even have reliable biomarkers for aging in general so what would the endpoints for such an experiment be?

Lifespan would be an easy one to measure. Experiment could take a while.

Tough to control for all the confounding variables, though.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#58

Post by Scandiravian »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #56
Scandiravian wrote: post #8

Being autistic myself, I feel conflicted about trying to "cure autism" Every day is challenging because I have to manage my energy, mask in social situations and at work, etc On the other hand, I like who I am and I'm also very good at what I do because my brain is structured the way it is. I can imagine a society that is structured in a way, where I don't need the accommodations I'm currently dependent on If the neg…

Anecdotally, I watched parents of autistic children become ghosts/shells of who they were. It seemed like much higher divorce rates, and towards the kids reaching highschool just single, burnt out mothers barely holding things together with no social life and their world reduced to just their kid(s). The cure shouldn't just be up to the kids, but to the invisible caregivers who give up way more than average parents.

I think that's a false dichotomy. The choice is not between putting it all on "invisible caretakers" and forcing a treatment on a child without consent; a treatment that will affect them the rest of their life

Here is a list of things that could also be done:

- Offer better protection to parents of autistic children in relation to work

- Stop trying to "normalise" autistic children in the school system, which leads to severe stress in the children

- Provide after-school activities and safe-spaces for autistic children to process and decompress

Anecdotally I have yet to meet any parents of autistic people who fit the narrative you provide. I have however met plenty of parents of neurotypical children who do

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#59

Post by intothemild »

Scandiravian wrote: post #55
intothemild wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm autistic myself. I don't want a "cure" but I would like to have something that could help me reduce some of the harder aspects of life. Right now I'm on anti anxiety drugs, which whilst mostly affective, have sided effects that kind of suck. I'm lucky my wife and daughter love me very much, and I've always been someone who wanted to push myself a little further to get outside or do new things.. mostly because my…

I'm 100% with you I am very lucky to be in a country where my workplace is required to provide "reasonable accomodations" for me. There's still a long way to go to actually address a lot of the problems that myself and other autistic people have to deal with on a daily basis The important point for me is that I can see what that world would look like and it doesn't depend on "fixing" me

Same. Norway here, and yeah whilst some work places will be happy to make larger accommodations, most will only do what they are forced too. Working as a SWE has helped me have more accommodating workplace conditions, it was really the last 6 years since work from home did I truly realise that was the only one change a company could give me that made the biggest difference.

Whilst I can take meds to make things better for anxiety, I will never be able to take meds to understand subtext or subtle facial expressions. It can take me weeks to realise that someone meant the opposite. There's no meds that could fix that.... Or if there is. Wow! I'd take it.

Re: Drug reverses autism-like brain changes in adult mice within hours

#60

Post by Scandiravian »

intothemild wrote: post #59
Scandiravian wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 100% with you I am very lucky to be in a country where my workplace is required to provide "reasonable accomodations" for me. There's still a long way to go to actually address a lot of the problems that myself and other autistic people have to deal with on a daily basis The important point for me is that I can see what that world would look like and it doesn't depend on "fixing" me

Same. Norway here, and yeah whilst some work places will be happy to make larger accommodations, most will only do what they are forced too. Working as a SWE has helped me have more accommodating workplace conditions, it was really the last 6 years since work from home did I truly realise that was the only one change a company could give me that made the biggest difference. Whilst I can take meds to make things bette…

It's really nice to hear from someone who's had some of the same experiences as me dealing with autism.

People look at me weird when I say that I have never had it as good as I did during COVID lockdowns, but it was amazing that my entire world was my apartment and I didn't have to deal with anything besides what was within those four walls

I agree with your distinction/example about meds. If there was something that could improve the things I struggle with such as not being able to recognise faces, interpret facial expressions, etc then I'd be very happy to take it

Unfortunately I think these things are intrinsically interconnected with the parts of being autistic I love

Anyway - thanks so much for sharing your perspective and experience. I really appreciated hearing about it

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