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Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

kyoto-u.ac.jp

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Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#31

Post by davidmyr »

Aurornis wrote: post #10
davidmyr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me also of the Andrew Huberman Jordan Peterson discussion where doing sth you do not like actually physically lets a specific region in your brain grow and if you do not do it, it shrinks (sorry for the simplification - not a neuro scientist haha)

Huberman grossly misrepresents the science on these issues. Not a good source. Yes I am aware of his credentials. He is notoriously bad at extrapolating from studies and confidently mapping it to life advice. If believing it helps you establish better routines then there’s no harm in that. Just be careful about where you repeat this stuff because everyone who has studied even a little neuroscience groans when Huberma…

Interesting did not know about this, just liked his videos :D Here is also an article that talks about him cherry-picking publications: https://neuroscienceandpsy.substack.com/p/breaking-up-with-b...

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#32

Post by john_minsk »

Interesting.

So one circuit essentially has 2 modes: 1 I do ActionA because I want to get GoalA 2 I do ActionA because it is my routine

What would be interesting to see is IF by activating this mechanism, mice start getting habits almost instantly for behaviors performed when this circuit was in the state#2. Correct me please.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#33

Post by goobatrooba »

dripdry45 wrote: post #19
sublinear wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're only only disagreeing in the premise of your reply, and not the substance of it. The unnecessary emotion is the problem and that emotion is 100% caused by inexperience. The surest way to stay confused is to overindulge in the emotions blinding you. Worse would be wallowing in it with your partner. Communicating the emotions first and then rambling your unfiltered thoughts will just cause more confusion…

Or the more confused everything becomes, and it just gets bottled up because there’s too much going on, and the partner gets away with their bad behavior and never has to take responsibility for their actions. forming a habit involves taking an action and having a result. A consequence. Talking about it does not work for a lot of people. They need to be pavlov’d. Once those difficult emotions are cool, everyone can e…

Indeed, and time also gives plausible deniability.. reacting live means the behaviour is present, evident. Three hours later it is easy to deflect reality and claim it was a misperception.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#34

Post by epolanski »

getstowly wrote: post #7

I was watching a Charlie Rocket interview today and I got a lot of inspiration from him. He made it a habit of staying positive, turning a loss into a win and always finding the upside. Instead of getting sucked into the despair, he takes a loss as a learning lesson. Good habits can be hard to find but once you get into the habit of something, it becomes super easy. Everything is hard to do -- if it was easy, everybo…

We are easily influenced by what we say.

Complaining is a reinforcing negative loop.

Saying to yourself that you can do it, even when you think the opposite very quickly shapes your mind.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#35

Post by xyzelement »

thephyber wrote: post #11
getstowly wrote: post #7

I was watching a Charlie Rocket interview today and I got a lot of inspiration from him. He made it a habit of staying positive, turning a loss into a win and always finding the upside. Instead of getting sucked into the despair, he takes a loss as a learning lesson. Good habits can be hard to find but once you get into the habit of something, it becomes super easy. Everything is hard to do -- if it was easy, everybo…

There's a fine line between what you described and toxic positivity. It's important not to ruminate on bad thoughts (when your proposal is a good replacement behavior), but it's also important not to bottle up natural human emotions as if they are unjustified or unreal. A thought exercise: if it wasn't your behavior that caused your own despair, but your spouse's behaviors that caused you irritation / grief. Do you t…

In your comment and the ones responding to you there's an assumption that your partner's behavior is the bigger problem compared to your reaction to it.

In my experience I've generally fucked things up precisely because my reaction was worse and inappropriate compared to what the partner did.

I think I am "lucky" in that my wife is amazing and I don't have to be on-guard again truly malicious and inappropriate behavior from her, so I have the "luxury" of focusing on controlling my own emotions and responses.

But then - WTF! How are people in relationships with people that you have to be so on-guard against?

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#36

Post by xyzelement »

shermantanktop wrote: post #16
davidmyr wrote: post #2

What also still puzzles me about habits is the fact that once I have a routine (like going to the gym at 6am) it is super easy. But once I lost it I struggle a lot to get it back.

When I start a habit it feels like a one-way trip to a new life. If I break it, even once, I realize it’s not, it’s just a thing that I can do or not do. Now starting that habit again feels much less consequential.

I really relate to this and see it as a problem because it feels this way but the feeling is misleading

I lately noticed that religion (at least, Judaism in my case) really embraces the opposite of what we just described. Daily action is really the thing. You don't pray once in your life, you pray every day. You follow the commandments every day. Back in the temple times, we gave sacrifices every day. Whether you take that literally or directionally - it's a powerful reminder against the thing we are struggling with that you described.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#38

Post by amanaplanacanal »

xyzelement wrote: post #35
thephyber wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fine line between what you described and toxic positivity. It's important not to ruminate on bad thoughts (when your proposal is a good replacement behavior), but it's also important not to bottle up natural human emotions as if they are unjustified or unreal. A thought exercise: if it wasn't your behavior that caused your own despair, but your spouse's behaviors that caused you irritation / grief. Do you t…

In your comment and the ones responding to you there's an assumption that your partner's behavior is the bigger problem compared to your reaction to it. In my experience I've generally fucked things up precisely because my reaction was worse and inappropriate compared to what the partner did. I think I am "lucky" in that my wife is amazing and I don't have to be on-guard again truly malicious and inappropriate behavi…

Because they formed partnerships when they were young and didn't know any better. And then once things get going, it seems better to "go along to get along" than face the difficulty of change.

In the US, we also have ideologies that say that one partner is supposed to be subservient to the other based on gender roles, and that makes things even more insane.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#39

Post by Aurornis »

abhaynayar wrote: post #30
Aurornis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huberman grossly misrepresents the science on these issues. Not a good source. Yes I am aware of his credentials. He is notoriously bad at extrapolating from studies and confidently mapping it to life advice. If believing it helps you establish better routines then there’s no harm in that. Just be careful about where you repeat this stuff because everyone who has studied even a little neuroscience groans when Huberma…

I haven't really listened to him much, didn't really like his style, just one or two of his sleep science episodes but I thought it was well-balanced and at each topic he added caveats etc. and always made sure to tell people to not just blindly trust the science but see what works for you. Can you point to any examples of him grossly misrepresenting the science on these issues. My personal hunch is most people don't…

He is the type of faux-balanced where he confidently says something and then tries to balance it with some caveats.

Almost everything he says about dopamine is flawed, as one example. It’s hard to explain how bad his statements about “dopamine detox” and low dopamine levels really are if you’ve only understood the concept of dopamine through his lens.

He’s a story teller with a lot of confidence and charisma. He will tell you any story that makes him sound smart and makes the listener feel impressed.

> My personal hunch is most people don't watch the long-form stuff and only hear this second-hand in a short-form context where a lot of the details are stripped out.

Nope! I tried to listen. It’s really bad. He uses the long form to ramble and project a sense that his knowledge is infinitely deep.

There are a lot of Huberman debunkings on the internet if you want to go look. You might also be interested to learn about his past lies to different researchers and his exaggerations about his lab affiliation (he doesn’t even live near the “Huberman lab”). He’s also not a great person by all accounts. He’s kind of the prototypical whole-package grifter podcaster.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#40

Post by dryanau »

pizzao wrote: post #37

As a beginner academic, is it fine to publish cute figures like this in academic journals (Im in computer science) ?

It's fine, though it isn't the norm, presumably because authors fear their work might be taken less seriously; but if the content of the paper is good, it's fine to add a little character, or flourish. Some amusing titles fall into a similar category.
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