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Wikimedia Foundation refuses union recognition, hires union-busting law firm

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Re: Wikimedia Foundation refuses union recognition, hires union-busting law firm

#51

Post by jacobgkau »

hamper653 wrote: post #40
matchbok3 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Wikimedia Foundation is asking for an election to ensure everyone actually wants this. Why? Does recognition entail that every worker is compelled to join the union?

My dad worked for the United States Postal Service for decades. He never joined the union, but he was still legally required to pay union dues, and the union was still legally required to represent him. So at least in some cases, yes, starting a union does affect all employees and practically requires them to "join" even if there's an option to not join on paper.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation refuses union recognition, hires union-busting law firm

#52

Post by inigyou »

cyanydeez wrote: post #44
estearum wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked article doesn't even come close to suggesting money laundering. It really just argues that Wikimedia is similar to virtually every other successful organization on earth and that its bloat grows with its resources. Wow insightful. The mere existence of The Mythical Man-Month or Peopleware does not prevent this behavior. Turns out it's actually super, super hard to avoid. It's pervasive enough to have sever…

It is interesting how "enshittification" just happens because of scale.

This is called the Iron Law of Bureaucracy

Re: Wikimedia Foundation refuses union recognition, hires union-busting law firm

#53

Post by tekla »

cyanydeez wrote: post #44
estearum wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked article doesn't even come close to suggesting money laundering. It really just argues that Wikimedia is similar to virtually every other successful organization on earth and that its bloat grows with its resources. Wow insightful. The mere existence of The Mythical Man-Month or Peopleware does not prevent this behavior. Turns out it's actually super, super hard to avoid. It's pervasive enough to have sever…

It is interesting how "enshittification" just happens because of scale.

Yes. everyone kinda sucks in their own ways. Mostly not enough to matter in their lives, but in large groups, the suck adds up.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation refuses union recognition, hires union-busting law firm

#54

Post by themaninthedark »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #21
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide your view of the events, then?

Note that I know nothing about the topic but the article, but the article says: > [W]e believe a secret-ballot election conducted by the National Labor Relations Board is the appropriate path forward. Honestly, that was the point where I stopped reading and hid this story. They used a non-secret election! Fuck them tbh. Jimmy Wales is entirely right here.

See, what you are missing is the games that would be played if they did a secret election.

"Can you prove that only employees voted in this?" "Can you prove there was no ballot stuffing? "

I am not generally pro-union, I believe it has it's place but have also seen downsides but I have seen these games played out before.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation refuses union recognition, hires union-busting law firm

#55

Post by estearum »

inigyou wrote: post #52
cyanydeez wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting how "enshittification" just happens because of scale.

This is called the Iron Law of Bureaucracy

Which as your article points out, is as easy to solve as reading The Mythical Man-Month. That's why it's an Iron Law. It's easy to remove!

Also, as you point out, it's actually the same as money laundering, which is an actual crime. So as it goes, every large organization is committing massive scale organized crime (to their own detriment, oddly enough), but they can stop doing so by just reading The Mythical Man-Month.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation refuses union recognition, hires union-busting law firm

#56

Post by nekusar »

matchbok3 wrote: post #24
evolve2k wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the conceptual level, unionising is simply a group of workers gathering into a group and saying we want to negotiate as a group. Usually this is done by workers to improve conditions and to have a better say when they’ve been being ignored or worse, poorly treated. Union recognition is then the company accepting that the union exists and then agreeing to meet and engage with it. Not accepting it, is usually a crap…

[flagged]

> This is incorrect. Voluntary recognition, which is what this article is about, means that an election is not done. Wikimedia Foundation is asking for an election to ensure everyone actually wants this.

Misinformation.

Voluntary recognition just means that there isn't a 120 hard fight against union elections to decide if there CAN BE a union.

Dark Horse comics just voluntarily acknowledged their union. After that is union elections, to decide who the union elected is.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation refuses union recognition, hires union-busting law firm

#57

Post by zetanor »

evolve2k wrote: post #16
hamper653 wrote: post #11

Can someone explain what "union recognition" means, concretely?

At the conceptual level, unionising is simply a group of workers gathering into a group and saying we want to negotiate as a group. Usually this is done by workers to improve conditions and to have a better say when they’ve been being ignored or worse, poorly treated. Union recognition is then the company accepting that the union exists and then agreeing to meet and engage with it. Not accepting it, is usually a crap…

The conceptual level breaks down in places where an open shop is illegal or disincentivized, which I suspect is the case in California where the Wikimedia Foundation is based. Europe usually has open shops, not closed shops, for example.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation refuses union recognition, hires union-busting law firm

#59

Post by amazingamazing »

cyanydeez wrote: post #48
amazingamazing wrote: post #43

Good. Most tech unions are worthless and only accelerate outsourcing. Unions can be good though, like in construction where the work is inherently dangerous.

yes, yes, blame the victims. It's always the fault of the pedestrian for being in the road.

Go read why they want to unionize
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