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IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

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11–20 of 37 posts

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#11
The article makes me feel the author doesn’t have a deep understanding of some of the mechanisms. TIMI, iirc, is similar to Java (or Smalltalk) bytecode. I’m not sure it’s translated to native instructions on install or on module load, but the native code is kept so that the compilation doesn’t need to happen again. It’s as if the JVM saved a .nativeclass file when a .class file is loaded (kind of one level lower than what Python does, turning a .py file into a .pyc, or .pyo).

The concept of a flat object space we saw in Smalltalk and Lisps (the “system image”) would be seen again, kind of, in the Newton, the Palm, and, IIRC, in Taligent’s Pink. It’s a shame the IBMi is so poorly documented (in sharp contrast with its Z big brother) that no emulator capable of booting OS/400 images exists.

It’s not that this approach is perfect though - it’s really hard to bootstrap a Smalltalk image from scratch. I assume making an IBMi image without a running IBMi system would be similarly challenging.

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#12
post #9
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in the shattered remains, badly reconstructed, of what a true operating system could be - we have some of the pieces (zfs, k8s, virtualization, scaling, failover, nixos, qubes) but imagine it all put together, orchestrated, carefully documented and tested by immense number of engineers. Ah, what could have been.

The problem is license costs. IBM makes a great system but almost all their customers have been working hard to replace it, not because of issues with the quality but the high license costs.

IBM AS/400 lineup was fully designed to optimize customer segmentation and threfore capture better the customer value. For example, there were cheaper models where the hardware was exactly the same as more expensive models except for additional hardware loops to make things run slower. That’s why they had so many models, they wanted to have a price point available for every company size.

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#13

> Here we reach a point that is simultaneously the platform’s greatest advantage and heaviest burden. Due to such deep integration with dedicated and expensive hardware, IBM i is an “elite” system, in the less positive sense. A mere mortal, computer science student, or enthusiast has no chance to “touch” this system in the comfort of their home. You cannot download an ISO image from the internet, install it on a virt…

You can get IBM i (OS/400) running at home, but the hurdles are many. You need to have one of a specific set of PowerPC servers and need to "acquire" an operating system image. Which will be running in unlicensed demo mode. This YouTuber did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUwJk81YatA

It's long been said that the biggest obstacle to wider adoption of the AS/400 is IBM itself. They offer classes, but don't make it easy - you have to join COMMON (their user group) and/or be enrolled in a university.

https://www.ibm.com/university/power/ibmi/

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#14
The main database of the company i work for is DB2 on a very recent IBM System. In terms of sql there’s nothing i miss that postgresql has.

If only the company for the software which runs on top of the DB2 would have used single column primary keys (some go over 7 columns) and not decimal for dates…

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#16
post #8

I'd recommend people read "Inside the AS400" by Frank G. Soltis, as the concepts behind the OS are quite strange and unlike anything else I've ever seen. Unfortunately paper copies are pretty expensive, but there's a high quality PDF floating around on Bittorrent.

https://archive.org/details/insideas4000000solt

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#17
post #9
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in the shattered remains, badly reconstructed, of what a true operating system could be - we have some of the pieces (zfs, k8s, virtualization, scaling, failover, nixos, qubes) but imagine it all put together, orchestrated, carefully documented and tested by immense number of engineers. Ah, what could have been.

The problem is license costs. IBM makes a great system but almost all their customers have been working hard to replace it, not because of issues with the quality but the high license costs.

There's really only one acceptable price for an OS, and it's the same as the only acceptable price for a browser or DB - $0.00. The precedent has been pretty solidly set (Linux, FreeBSD, MySQL, Postgres, Chrome, Firefox...) at this point, hence all the pivots to charging for service and support and suchlike.

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#18
TF is even this

>Thanks to this, an administrator seeing the string 123456/QUSER/QZDASOINIT immediately knows who and what launched it, without having to map mysterious PID numbers to service names.

did old UNIXes didn't have process names or something ? Those are exactly same information (pid/user/process name) UNIX derivatives or hell, windows get

Author seems to be blindsided by the "different" enough to not have any useful insight in it

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#19
post #2

IBM i was k8s before k8s, with fewer yaml files and better backwards compat Some of my first exposure to enterprise IT was via the AS/400 and served as a fantastic basis for the cloud stack and agents of today.

Turns out it's far easier to do stuff if you are in control of every single level.

Re: IBM i (OS/400) the Database Operating System

#20
post #11

The article makes me feel the author doesn’t have a deep understanding of some of the mechanisms. TIMI, iirc, is similar to Java (or Smalltalk) bytecode. I’m not sure it’s translated to native instructions on install or on module load, but the native code is kept so that the compilation doesn’t need to happen again. It’s as if the JVM saved a .nativeclass file when a .class file is loaded (kind of one level lower tha…

Actually all modern JVM implementations, and Android, do exactly that, JIT caches that survive across executions. On Android it is additionally used to guide AOT compilation when the device is idle or charging.

TIMI is compiled to native code on installation, or explicitly, either by the admin, or on updates that render the overall compilation invalid.

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