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China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

reuters.com

71–80 of 126 posts

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#71
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re insane if you think supporting Russia is not “more wrong” than supporting Ukraine during a war Russia started to invade Ukraine.

What about Israel?

We support them but they don’t need us. Iran would crumble tomorrow without China. Also, Likud Israel might be gone after this year’s October election, whether we want it gone or not. Conversely, China acts as a virtual suzerain over Iran (and NK).

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#72
post #22

After living and working in China 10yrs and fundamentally experiencing the growth rate and culture, it's been a bit horrifying to watch the Western world consistently decide withholding tech from China and giving them no other option but develop their own tech, is a good idea. They are the ultimate long-term planners and I have no doubt the existing gaps will be relatively short lived before China closes them.

Withholding technology is the only tool we have. If we let them have the tech it's not like they'll start depending on us. They will simply replicate the machinery and then someone else will be writing a comment on Nacker Hews in this alternative Earth about how we were such fools in the West to simply let them have our technology thinking that would make them depend on us. In fact, we have this evidence because all…

> They are well on the trajectory to being an equivalent world power

Equivalent is your wishful thinking seeping through.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Israel?

We support them but they don’t need us. Iran would crumble tomorrow without China. Also, Likud Israel might be gone after this year’s October election, whether we want it gone or not. Conversely, China acts as a virtual suzerain over Iran (and NK).

If you truly believe that Gaza would be entirely rubble as it is today without the last 2 decades of slavish US backing, I don't know what to tell you.

US is also best friends with the financiers of the horrific genocide in Sudan.

This isn't whataboutism because you're genuinely presenting it as if it's something very different from what the US has been up to for the last 60 years.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is single-handedly propping up Iran, NK, and Russia financially. If you ahem removed the top 1000 leaders of the CCP tomorrow, those three countries wouldn’t be able to continue their population repression and the world would be an immeasurably better place. Iran killed, what, 20k of their own population earlier this year? Russia has lost 10x that this year alone. Blocking tech from China directly hampers their…

Somewhat over-estimating the numbers, but even if your stats were accurate it wouldn’t change the critique that “the west” does the exact same thing. This isn’t what-about-ism, this is simply acknowledging the realpolitik that there are great powers vying for control over the rest if the world through proxies. A game as old as civilisation itself. We support Ukraine, they support Russia. We support Israel, they suppo…

Besides which, I doubt China has sufficient influence over Iran to restrain them, considering the US "ahem removed" the all the people that could plausibly considered moderates. I wonder how reasonable China would feel if the US really went ahead and "ahem removed" a thousand of the top political leadership. My bet, well, it's certainly possible they are correct on the "wouldn't be able to continue their population repression" bit... considering we'll all be too busy dying of nuclear winter.

Imagine things happening other way around and China deciding to "ahem remove", not even a thousand, maybe a dozen people from the US government. Odds on that not ending in a nuclear exchange, anyone? I would take that bet at basically any odds, only I probably wouldn't be alive to spend it if I won.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#75
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re insane if you think supporting Russia is not “more wrong” than supporting Ukraine during a war Russia started to invade Ukraine.

What about Israel?

Yeah, supporting Israel as we do is also insane. By that I mean delivering weapons so that they can continue their wars against their neighbors, their genocide, and their illegal, and extending occupation of the West Bank. Our politicians still don't find it in themselves to criticize Israel, after their actions have been recognized as Genocide.

Only a few countries in Europe have been more vocal about it, like Spain and I believe Ireland.

Especially, it hurts to see that German politicians are so uneducated, that they have learned nothing from history, and still act by the categories "Israel? Good!", "Against Israel? Evil!".

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#77
post #37

Ultimately a win for the consumer, China does not tend to ban technology as a weapon

> Ultimately a win for the consumer, China does not tend to ban technology as a weapon

Doesn't have to, China will just subsidize their businesses, sometimes at a substantial loss, for as long as it takes to bankrupt the international competitors. So yeah, if by that you mean "they end up unemployed and in overall economic pain, but for a short time some stuff was abnormally cheap" then yes, "it's a win for the consumers"

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#78

After living and working in China 10yrs and fundamentally experiencing the growth rate and culture, it's been a bit horrifying to watch the Western world consistently decide withholding tech from China and giving them no other option but develop their own tech, is a good idea. They are the ultimate long-term planners and I have no doubt the existing gaps will be relatively short lived before China closes them.

> (...) it's been a bit horrifying to watch the Western world consistently decide withholding tech from China and giving them no other option but develop their own tech, is a good idea.

This is a very ignorant and even cynical comment. You purposely omitted the fact that "the western world" was collaborating with China to the point where major corporations were developing tight partnerships, but only to see those partnerships being used to steal trade secrets about outright clone whole product lines.

To make matters worse, China is simulaneously demanding "the western world" transfers all tech to china while refusing to collaborate or even allow western companies to operate within their country.

Shall we talk about the extent that China has been targeting ASML industrial espionage?

https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2019/asml-disagr...

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#79
post #22

After living and working in China 10yrs and fundamentally experiencing the growth rate and culture, it's been a bit horrifying to watch the Western world consistently decide withholding tech from China and giving them no other option but develop their own tech, is a good idea. They are the ultimate long-term planners and I have no doubt the existing gaps will be relatively short lived before China closes them.

Withholding technology is the only tool we have. If we let them have the tech it's not like they'll start depending on us. They will simply replicate the machinery and then someone else will be writing a comment on Nacker Hews in this alternative Earth about how we were such fools in the West to simply let them have our technology thinking that would make them depend on us. In fact, we have this evidence because all…

> Withholding technology is the only tool we have.

The US has the strongest military in the world, tight control of a large part of the world economy, unprecedented cultural soft power, a permanent vetoing seat at the UN security counsel, vast territories, a 50-year headstart in space, thousands of nukes, dozens of cyber organizations with deep roots everywhere.

The embargoes and tariffs are literally a skill issue.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#80

After living and working in China 10yrs and fundamentally experiencing the growth rate and culture, it's been a bit horrifying to watch the Western world consistently decide withholding tech from China and giving them no other option but develop their own tech, is a good idea. They are the ultimate long-term planners and I have no doubt the existing gaps will be relatively short lived before China closes them.

> (...) it's been a bit horrifying to watch the Western world consistently decide withholding tech from China and giving them no other option but develop their own tech, is a good idea. This is a very ignorant and even cynical comment. You purposely omitted the fact that "the western world" was collaborating with China to the point where major corporations were developing tight partnerships, but only to see those par…

Let us talk about how much tech the fledgling United States stole from the Europeans, starting from the cotton mill all the way up to the Tizard Project. The US literally stole companies overnight at the start of WW2 (Merck).

As the preeminent superpower, the US had its turn. Now step aside and make way for China.

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