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Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

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Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This data conflicts with my image of Japan and China, and I wonder where the discrepancy lies.

The propagandised idea that living in China means living under an oppressive communist regime, runs counter to the countries wild success at pretty much everything it does.

Hey, remember Naomi Wu? She used to post a lot here. I wonder whatever happened to her?

Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The propagandised idea that living in China means living under an oppressive communist regime, runs counter to the countries wild success at pretty much everything it does.

I don't think success directly translates into high trust. I think of China as a hypercompetitive place, which to me should mean lower trust.

Explain why hyper competitiveness should mean lower trust?

Doesn’t competition imply rule and order?

The other direction is merely organised crime, which tends to have very few big players.

Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The propagandised idea that living in China means living under an oppressive communist regime, runs counter to the countries wild success at pretty much everything it does.

Hey, remember Naomi Wu? She used to post a lot here. I wonder whatever happened to her?

[flagged]

Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#34

I don't fully agree with Zitron on all his points but it's very hard to disprove the larger points will somehow resolve themselves. One point that I think will determine the future, moreso with data centers, is politics. Laws are not unchangeable and making decisions that determine the next 5-10 years of action based on the current law is a recipe for disaster. "Buying" a politician still has to account for the fact…

> making decisions that determine the next 5-10 years of action based on the current law is a recipe for disaster. How else can one make business decisions? Or any long term decision, financial or otherwise. If you are correct, which I fear you may be, then we, in the West generally, are now living in a low trust society . Which is not a good thing at all , and should be of utmost concern.

All day every day you make decisions based on things you think you can safely assume, and things you know you can't assume.

The most likely behavior of a political office is just one of the things you know you can not safely assume, that's all.

Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#35

So right towards the end Zitron says it isn't clear what Google, MS and Amazons plan is. But he just finished explaining that Anthropic and Open AI are paying for them to build data centers, and implied that on face value, this was to rent the data centers back to Anthropic and Open AI. Seems to me they are just bleeding them dry so that when the money runs out for Anthropic and Open AI, they will be left with data c…

If you read more of Zitron's work, he says that there's little demand for the AI compute power outside of OpenAI and Anthropic. If they are bled dry, then the hyperscalers will not have enough customers for the data centers which they have blown so much capex spend on and will have to soon go into debt to ensure they can be built. The GPUs and the high bandwidth memory they use have little use other than to run and t…

So his big insight is that if you take away the two largest customers the demand is much lower? Wow, such informative.

>The GPUs and the high bandwidth memory they use have little use other than to run and train these LLMs.

It's compute, and can be used to compute anything.

Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> little demand for the AI compute power outside of OpenAI and Anthropic. I think every other business is going to slowly wake up to how powerful machine learning can be, and or, how important it will be to run your own models you can trust. I don't doubt that there is a bubble, but once the hardware is built, there will be plenty of customers. I guess if you overpay for hardware, you can be undercut by data centers…

I don't think so. AI is a general purpose tech and you have many companies still doing discoveries on how to apply the technology in a useful way. It's an expensive solution in search of a problem. Not to mention no one wants to pay the actual cost of what it takes to deliver the technology. The whole business model is unsustainable.

The business model has not been discovered yet.

Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read more of Zitron's work, he says that there's little demand for the AI compute power outside of OpenAI and Anthropic. If they are bled dry, then the hyperscalers will not have enough customers for the data centers which they have blown so much capex spend on and will have to soon go into debt to ensure they can be built. The GPUs and the high bandwidth memory they use have little use other than to run and t…

So his big insight is that if you take away the two largest customers the demand is much lower? Wow, such informative. > The GPUs and the high bandwidth memory they use have little use other than to run and train these LLMs. It's compute, and can be used to compute anything.

It's GPU compute, which is a lot more niche. There are only so many things you can render or simulate and only so many people/companies who want to render or simulate something. Not even remotely enough to create enough demand to saturate a trillion dollars worth of GPU data centres.

Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#38
post #14

I don't think Zitron has been right about anything in the last 5 years. But he talks a good talk.

I cannot understand why people listen to him? I feel like I must be living in an alternate universe to a substantial amount of people? It's bananas...

Well he's saying what a lot of people desperately want to believe.

Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#39
post #14

I don't think Zitron has been right about anything in the last 5 years. But he talks a good talk.

I cannot understand why people listen to him? I feel like I must be living in an alternate universe to a substantial amount of people? It's bananas...

The problem with his work is that a lot of the conclusions he comes to are a step too far, but the problems he identifies with how money is moving or how much datacenters cost or how no one has ever built a 1GW datacenter and we're expected to believe they can build a bunch of them, or even a 10GW data center - those are real.

Re: Zitron: "Everyone Has Been Sold a Lie" on AI [video]

#40
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and he wrong on all of those accounts. but he’s got the best gig, he has been writing literally one same article for years, gets LLM to shuffle the words and publishes it under a different title :)

Now, now, let's be fair. I don't think LLMs are used for writing or editing the articles in any way. (Each reader can decide themselves whether what you wrote is unfair to Zitron or to LLMs.)

look at his articles from 202_ and compare them with 2026. the year will be 2078 and he will still hussle money out of his subscribers talking about exact same thing over and over again… this is like “experts” predicting a market crash. market will crash, eventually. it always does, eventually. so if you say every day until it does, you are guaranteed to be the one that predicted the crash, eh?

reminds me of a “riddle” my Dad told me when I was a kid which asks “why does the native american rain dance always works, 100% of the time always produces rain?” to which I replied that not only do I not know but also that it cannot possibly be true. he smiled and said “it always produces rain because they do not stop dancing until the rain starts.” #dadwisdom

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