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Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

regen.co.uk

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Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#21

Post by jampa »

reenorap wrote: post #4

Why bother? Power companies will complain they are losing money and regulators will allow them to buy energy from residential solar panels basically for free (NEM 3.0). This is California. California has spent decades convincing people to convert to solar panels and EVs and now that many have switched, they doubled electricity prices and told us not to charge when it’s too hot. Now they want solar panel owners to pay…

The new rule here requires you to pay for part of your imports (up to ~60%), even if you export more. I know people who installed batteries in the inverters because of this. It is more expensive overall (hybrid inverter + LFP batteries) but has other benefits (blackouts are not a problem, most months you don't even use the grid). I imagine that once sodium-ion battery production scales and costs decline, this will become the "default" option for a solar installation.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#22

Post by dghlsakjg »

luxuryballs wrote: post #11

Wild that we have to ask permission to be able to make this stuff.

The power grid has the potential to be insanely dangerous. We largely have eliminated that danger because of tight regulations and codes.

Look up backfeeding, which is a huge concern with this stuff. It is entirely possible for anyone sharing a transformer with you to send power back up the lines to your house in a dangerous way. That’s why you shouldn’t just plug a generator in with a suicide plug when the power’s out.

A grid tied battery without the right protections is electrically identical to a generator with a suicide plug. We want some standards here.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#23

Post by skew-aberration »

Aurornis wrote: post #15
reenorap wrote: post #4

Why bother? Power companies will complain they are losing money and regulators will allow them to buy energy from residential solar panels basically for free (NEM 3.0). This is California. California has spent decades convincing people to convert to solar panels and EVs and now that many have switched, they doubled electricity prices and told us not to charge when it’s too hot. Now they want solar panel owners to pay…

In more well-run locations, power companies are providing incentives to install batteries because they help reduce the load on the grid. These are plug-in solutions, though. The whole idea is that a permit isn’t required. If approved in your area, you don’t need to work with the power company at all. You just buy one and plug it in. The plug-in stuff doesn’t play by the same rules as the big installs.

Yes, and non plugin-in batteries don't just need a permit - typically the power company also directly controls the battery, via a web API that the manufacturer provides (at least in Australia, this is a condition for access to the incentives).

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#24

Post by xbmcuser »

slackfan wrote: post #2

This will lead to some new and exciting ways of starting a housefire.

The new sodium batteries are a lot safer than the lithium chemistries. And we already do have type of home batteries they are just called UPS systems. The real game changer will be when 3-5kwh plugin batteries fall below $150-200pkwh as at those prices batteries will make sense even for apartment owners/renters with no solar to use it to demand shift as time of day electricity prices get more common.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#25

Post by searealist »

reenorap wrote: post #4

Why bother? Power companies will complain they are losing money and regulators will allow them to buy energy from residential solar panels basically for free (NEM 3.0). This is California. California has spent decades convincing people to convert to solar panels and EVs and now that many have switched, they doubled electricity prices and told us not to charge when it’s too hot. Now they want solar panel owners to pay…

NEM 3.0 is more fair. The grid is expensive and just as expensive if it is needed to be fully utilized 1% of the time or 100% of the time.

The problem is California forcing new construction to buy overpriced solar from builders that makes little sense compared to commercial solar installations + grid.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#26

Post by tempestn »

I assume plug-in batteries are considerably more workable in the UK on 240V, since they could charge and deploy at double the rate of a plug-in system here. Of course 240V plugs exist in North America, but they're generally only installed for dryers, ranges, and EV chargers, so people don't tend to have one just free.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#27

Post by slyall »

pudgywalsh wrote: post #20

What was the breaking point for modern British society where housing unwieldy and potentially hazardous electrical equipment in your living room seems like a completely normal and just thing to do?

I guess you've never come across electric heaters or if you want to go into the bedroom electric blankets ( 5000 fires per year in the UK in 2011 )

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#28

Post by NavinF »

tempestn wrote: post #26

I assume plug-in batteries are considerably more workable in the UK on 240V, since they could charge and deploy at double the rate of a plug-in system here. Of course 240V plugs exist in North America, but they're generally only installed for dryers, ranges, and EV chargers, so people don't tend to have one just free.

What percentage of buyers do you imagine are gonna buy a battery big enough to saturate 15A*120V=1800W for long? The average home uses 30 kWh per day = 1250W. Batteries don't need to handle peak load. Approximately nobody has a whole home UPS.

Also 240V power strips are fairly common in my circles because GPU server PSUs tend to be more efficient at 240V. They're marketed as PDUs, not strips. You're not gonna install a new outlet for every server. One dryer outlet in the garage is enough for most people

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#29

Post by zugi »

mkozlows wrote: post #18
reenorap wrote: post #4

Why bother? Power companies will complain they are losing money and regulators will allow them to buy energy from residential solar panels basically for free (NEM 3.0). This is California. California has spent decades convincing people to convert to solar panels and EVs and now that many have switched, they doubled electricity prices and told us not to charge when it’s too hot. Now they want solar panel owners to pay…

It's not a scam. Connecting to the grid has enormous value, and keeping the grid up has real costs. A model where your generation pays you retail prices doesn't make sense. California's current net metering system, which is more reflective of the true benefits and costs of solar to the power system, has been incentivizing people to add storage to keep their solar rather than get paid big money to feed back midday low…

> Connecting to the grid has enormous value

Yet in most locales it's illegal to disconnect from the grid.

If disconnection were legal for those who want to be energy self-sufficient, then charging just to connect would be more defensible.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#30

Post by hkt »

pudgywalsh wrote: post #20

What was the breaking point for modern British society where housing unwieldy and potentially hazardous electrical equipment in your living room seems like a completely normal and just thing to do?

Presumably it helps that these things have their own fire suppression systems, time of use tariffs are cheap, and everybody needs a win.

(I'll be putting mine outside)

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