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Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

arstechnica.com

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Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#11

Post by gymbeaux »

ksymph wrote: post #8

Not a great article, but a very real phenomenon. I recently picked up a banned Nintendo Switch Lite for cheap -- meaning it can't download games or updates off Nintendo's servers, but it can still play cartridge games. And while most games function, there are more often than not critical fixes or significant content updates missing. The console exists in a strange sort of limbo where everything is playable but not in…

This made me think of how we have to manually block certain devices (usually smart TVs) so they don’t “phone home” and show us ads and so forth. I see your switch being banned as a sort of mixed blessing. It’s liberating in a way. I wonder if there’s some way to use a proxy to self host the software patches. We had something similar on the PS3 homebrew scene.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#13

Post by MBCook »

Discs don’t matter. The whole “bring back discs” thing is pointless. They’re gone. Period.

Rights matter. If we had the same rights with digital purchases we had with old physical games the disc thing would be a much much smaller issue. Would many care outside true collectors?

Don’t confuse the two. If you do, and you complain loudly enough, you’ll get the monkey’s paw version of discs. All the downsides of both, no upside at all.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#14

Post by ksymph »

gymbeaux wrote: post #11
ksymph wrote: post #8

Not a great article, but a very real phenomenon. I recently picked up a banned Nintendo Switch Lite for cheap -- meaning it can't download games or updates off Nintendo's servers, but it can still play cartridge games. And while most games function, there are more often than not critical fixes or significant content updates missing. The console exists in a strange sort of limbo where everything is playable but not in…

This made me think of how we have to manually block certain devices (usually smart TVs) so they don’t “phone home” and show us ads and so forth. I see your switch being banned as a sort of mixed blessing. It’s liberating in a way. I wonder if there’s some way to use a proxy to self host the software patches. We had something similar on the PS3 homebrew scene.

I've looked into it, and there doesn't seem to be any existing solution. You can transfer updates from one Switch to another, though, so if you have two Switches that opens up some options.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#15

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ksymph wrote: post #8

Not a great article, but a very real phenomenon. I recently picked up a banned Nintendo Switch Lite for cheap -- meaning it can't download games or updates off Nintendo's servers, but it can still play cartridge games. And while most games function, there are more often than not critical fixes or significant content updates missing. The console exists in a strange sort of limbo where everything is playable but not in…

What games? One thing I do appreciate about the Switch is that most first party games come fully playable on cartridge. I bought Splatoon Raiders the other day on the way to the train station for a long ride; I popped it in and started playing, never had any internet. It occurred to me later that I probably couldn't have done this for a third party title.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#16

Post by Barrin92 »

MBCook wrote: post #13

Discs don’t matter. The whole “bring back discs” thing is pointless. They’re gone. Period. Rights matter. If we had the same rights with digital purchases we had with old physical games the disc thing would be a much much smaller issue. Would many care outside true collectors? Don’t confuse the two. If you do, and you complain loudly enough, you’ll get the monkey’s paw version of discs. All the downsides of both, no…

Discs matter because centralized digital distribution is what is eroding your rights. The medium's the message.

It's the malleability and ephemerality of digital content that has enabled not just restricting people's rights, but destroying the authenticity of media by arbitrarily replacing its content. The reason Amazon could delete 1984 from your Kindle, is its digital nature. Nobody, except you, can delete a book from your shelf or change its content.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#17

Post by bakugo »

gymbeaux wrote: post #11
ksymph wrote: post #8

Not a great article, but a very real phenomenon. I recently picked up a banned Nintendo Switch Lite for cheap -- meaning it can't download games or updates off Nintendo's servers, but it can still play cartridge games. And while most games function, there are more often than not critical fixes or significant content updates missing. The console exists in a strange sort of limbo where everything is playable but not in…

This made me think of how we have to manually block certain devices (usually smart TVs) so they don’t “phone home” and show us ads and so forth. I see your switch being banned as a sort of mixed blessing. It’s liberating in a way. I wonder if there’s some way to use a proxy to self host the software patches. We had something similar on the PS3 homebrew scene.

The PS3 is a relic from an era where consoles being connected to the internet was still a relatively new concept, and security was a lot more lax. Newer consoles like the Switch are far more locked down, everything is signed/encrypted/verified/etc so any tinkering of that sort is impossible without a kernel code execution exploit.

The only option for a banned Switch Lite is installing a modchip (there are people who will do it for you for a fee, well worth it imo).

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#18

Post by scared_together »

Barrin92 wrote: post #16
MBCook wrote: post #13

Discs don’t matter. The whole “bring back discs” thing is pointless. They’re gone. Period. Rights matter. If we had the same rights with digital purchases we had with old physical games the disc thing would be a much much smaller issue. Would many care outside true collectors? Don’t confuse the two. If you do, and you complain loudly enough, you’ll get the monkey’s paw version of discs. All the downsides of both, no…

Discs matter because centralized digital distribution is what is eroding your rights . The medium's the message. It's the malleability and ephemerality of digital content that has enabled not just restricting people's rights, but destroying the authenticity of media by arbitrarily replacing its content. The reason Amazon could delete 1984 from your Kindle, is its digital nature. Nobody, except you, can delete a book…

Have you read the article?

> For years now, the testers at DoesItPlay have been documenting this trend, testing thousands of physical game releases to see which ones live up to the promise of full “plug and play” functionality without an Internet connection. Thus far, a full 27 percent of the physical releases they’ve tested require some sort of download to fix game-breaking bugs or obtain core game content that is not stored on the physical release itself. That ratio balloons to 34 percent for tested PS5 games and 50 percent for those on the Xbox Series X.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#19

Post by jerf »

Barrin92 wrote: post #16
MBCook wrote: post #13

Discs don’t matter. The whole “bring back discs” thing is pointless. They’re gone. Period. Rights matter. If we had the same rights with digital purchases we had with old physical games the disc thing would be a much much smaller issue. Would many care outside true collectors? Don’t confuse the two. If you do, and you complain loudly enough, you’ll get the monkey’s paw version of discs. All the downsides of both, no…

Discs matter because centralized digital distribution is what is eroding your rights . The medium's the message. It's the malleability and ephemerality of digital content that has enabled not just restricting people's rights, but destroying the authenticity of media by arbitrarily replacing its content. The reason Amazon could delete 1984 from your Kindle, is its digital nature. Nobody, except you, can delete a book…

It's not about the digitalness, it's about the hardware that enforces the rights management. You can stick every Super Nintendo game ever made on to a not-very-large SD card. It's completely digital. No one anywhere can control what you do with them. It's honestly more "yours" in that form than the corresponding rather enormous pile of cartridges.

Turning things into big piles of numbers isn't what takes them from you. It's the hardware and ecosystem that limits what you can do with the numbers. The reason Amazon could delete that book isn't that the numbers were particularly deletable somehow, it's that people were using systems that let someone else control them.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#20

Post by MBCook »

Barrin92 wrote: post #16
MBCook wrote: post #13

Discs don’t matter. The whole “bring back discs” thing is pointless. They’re gone. Period. Rights matter. If we had the same rights with digital purchases we had with old physical games the disc thing would be a much much smaller issue. Would many care outside true collectors? Don’t confuse the two. If you do, and you complain loudly enough, you’ll get the monkey’s paw version of discs. All the downsides of both, no…

Discs matter because centralized digital distribution is what is eroding your rights . The medium's the message. It's the malleability and ephemerality of digital content that has enabled not just restricting people's rights, but destroying the authenticity of media by arbitrarily replacing its content. The reason Amazon could delete 1984 from your Kindle, is its digital nature. Nobody, except you, can delete a book…

No. Thats the whole point.

The point is you have no rights digital or physical. That’s the problem.

Disc are not magic totems. There is nothing promising you the disc you will work in 10 years, 10 months, 10 days. Nothing ensuring that you can resell it for >$0. They could trivially make the disc hold a one-time redemption for the game.

If you buy a physical used copy of Anthem can you play it? Nope. They could do that with single player games.

What’s the resale value of, effectively, a coaster? Can you lend it to a friend? Your current rights are about the coaster. Not the software.

You happen to have abilities with physical discs because of tradition. You’re not guaranteed those. Digital makes that obvious.

This is a rights issue.

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